Cost for PPAP - Customer pays for samples and PPAP documentation from supplier

B

blue_cove

#1
Hello,

Few days ago I asked my supplier for PPAP documentation on level 3. The supplier answer me that he will prepare documentation (not full documentation) and initial-samples but I must prepare order for it and pay for everything :mad:
I check our contract with this supplier and there is a point connected with cost for initial samples, there is also a note that we are responsible for introducing all tests. I would like to ask you - it is normal that we customer must pay for samples and PPAP documentation from our suppliers ?? Also about this test - I'm not from purchasing department and I wasn't present during preparation this contract, but for me it is not normal that we must introduced test instead of our supplier :mg:

How is it solved it in your companies ?

Thank you for every advice.
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Cost for PPAP

We have also charged an additional fee for these kinds of requests. We are non-automotive, this is not a normal standard to follow in our industry and takes a lot of time and preparation and not just everybody has the knowledge needed to complete these. So, I would say this is not out of the ordinary if you are non-automotive.
 
B

blue_cove

#3
Re: Cost for PPAP

We are company from automotive area and as I know this supplier is also automotive.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Cost for PPAP

I got nuthin' then. sorry. I guess it might be better for them to just raise their prices and not say that they are surcharging you for PPAP, huh?:bonk:
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#5
This question highlights a problem that exists in a large number of companies, the lack of internal communication.
In a lot of cases , Purchasing or Marketing have no connection with Quality etc and promise without understanding.

To the issue, some companies do abuse the notion of "free" samples and expect a constant flow of these samples.
It is reasonable to limit the number of free samples.
Why did purchasing make an agreement which affects you with out you knowing.
 
B

blue_cove

#6
It is hard to say. From what I know our purchasing department never establish anything with another departments. That's way now from time to time we have problems :frust:
If I ask my supplier for PPAP it happens that I have a lot of problems with that because it wasn't written in contract :(
That's way I started to asking if it is normal that I must pay for initial-samples or even for PPAP documentation.
 
M

Murphys Law

#7
For custom business where we jointly work to develop a product, we give full PPAP support. For catalog device that we control datasheet, we only provided minimal PPAP support free.

I am advocating charging certain customers who are buying the catalog but want full support. It really comes down to purchasing clout: Who is the biggest: The customer or the supplier?

If you believe you have some leverage, just forward details onto your purchaser who will then take it up with your suppliers sales interface. They may waive it. If insist on it, then your purchaser needs to bear than it mind next time they deal with the supplier.

There is a cost of putting together a PPAP. Either you or your supplier absorbs that.

In other customer bases, we have similar discussions where customers may request additional testing that is not part of our normal qualifications or industry standards. Depending on the business behind it, we may go ahead and do it but business manager makes that decision as they will fund that.
 
P

prototyper

#8
Hello,

Few days ago I asked my supplier for PPAP documentation on level 3. The supplier answer me that he will prepare documentation (not full documentation) and initial-samples but I must prepare order for it and pay for everything :mad:
I check our contract with this supplier and there is a point connected with cost for initial samples, there is also a note that we are responsible for introducing all tests. I would like to ask you - it is normal that we customer must pay for samples and PPAP documentation from our suppliers ?? Also about this test - I'm not from purchasing department and I wasn't present during preparation this contract, but for me it is not normal that we must introduced test instead of our supplier :mg:

How is it solved it in your companies ?

Thank you for every advice.
Your suppliers aren't running a charity! Either you pay for PPAP (including samples) up front or they will amortize it into the piece price. The only thing wrong here is that the agreement on how you will pay was not tied up in the contract.
 
R

RandT

#9
In my opinion, it is legitimate to charge for the sample parts at the regular piece price. They are production parts ordered just like any others.

As far as preparing the documentation and doing all the required testing etc., I would call that the cost of doing business. Obviously, if it is so defined in the contract than there is no need for negotiation. I understand if there is testing above and beyond normal requirements that is a different situation.

I think the supplier is being a bit foolish.They may very well want to request their own internal process change at one point in the future. I wonder what their reaction would be if you then charged them for handling and approving their process change PPAP?
 
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