CQI-9 or W-HTX - Which heat treating standard is more stringent?

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#11
I am not familiar with the changes. The 1st edition had quite a few typographical errors in it. It looked to me that the first edition was rushed to publication. The job audit form needs some improvement as well.
 
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Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#12
Please, if anyone knows the changes, could you share? I just bought the 1st edition a couple of months back - didn't know that a new one was coming out! Darn!:(
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#14
We were told the changes are clarifications, and nothing major. We called AIAG and they said it will not be available to purchase until the end of the month.
Strange, I was able to put it the "cart" on their website. It did not say anything about not being available now.
 
R

ralphsulser

#15
Strange, I was able to put it the "cart" on their website. It did not say anything about not being available now.
It could be that it is available now ahead of time. Try to go ahead with your purchase and let us know. If it is, we will order it too.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#17
Announced at Autotech.

CQI:9 -- added Annealing and Stress Relieving to the process tables

The assessment team can consist of an experienced QMS auditor (leader) and some one with more than 5 years heat treat experience. (was QMS auditor only, although Ford CSR required heat experience also).
 
R

ralphsulser

#18
Announced at Autotech.

CQI:9 -- added Annealing and Stress Relieving to the process tables

The assessment team can consist of an experienced QMS auditor (leader) and some one with more than 5 years heat treat experience. (was QMS auditor only, although Ford CSR required heat experience also).

RE: the new rules of 5 years heat treat experience:
How does that affect the 3rd party and 2nd party auditors who think they want to audit your HT dept.? How do we know they are actually qualified other than say they are qualified.
Also is there an explanation what 5 years heat treat experience means. I have been around HT and audited HT systems to TS16949 for over 5 years, but I don't know the technical details. Any info to clarify.
(We haven't been to our purchasing dept to order the new revision yet)
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#19
RE: the new rules of 5 years heat treat experience:
How does that affect the 3rd party and 2nd party auditors who think they want to audit your HT dept.?

How do we know they are actually qualified other than say they are qualified.
Also is there an explanation what 5 years heat treat experience means. I have been around HT and audited HT systems to TS16949 for over 5 years, but I don't know the technical details. Any info to clarify.
(We haven't been to our purchasing dept to order the new revision yet)

The 5 years was already a requirement in Ford Customer Specific Requirements before the release of the 2nd edition. Not sure, but interview your 3rd party auditor to verify his qualifications. I am not aware of any more detail about qualifications. A metallurgical degree is not a requirement that is written down anywhere.

The 2nd edition allows you to have an assessor team. The team leader is an experienced QMS auditor and a heat treat expert is on the team.

Of course with auditing, one can not audit their own work. I have a client where the heat treat expert is responsible for the induction heat treat process and is the auditee (or assessee) for CQI:9. We decided to put the manager of the met/chem lab on the team as the heat treat expert. In this case, I am available as an outside consultant when questions arise.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#20
RE: the new rules of 5 years heat treat experience:
How does that affect the 3rd party and 2nd party auditors who think they want to audit your HT dept.? How do we know they are actually qualified other than say they are qualified.
Also is there an explanation what 5 years heat treat experience means. I have been around HT and audited HT systems to TS16949 for over 5 years, but I don't know the technical details. Any info to clarify.
(We haven't been to our purchasing dept to order the new revision yet)


I don't think they would apply the 5 year req. to a 3rd party auditor. Few of us would have 5 year's experience in heat treating. The 5 yr req. applies to those auditing CQI-9/HTSA.

3rd party auditors are not auditing CQI-9/HTSA, we are auditing whether you performed it. We are auditing your TS-16949 system, and would have to meet those qualifications.
 
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