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Criteria for print shop - How do you consider the cycle time in a print shop?

Ninja

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#11
When you say similar, what specific aspects do I have to compare?
Similar Cycle times of subprocesses

And the other issue, regarding time, what is to be considered? Per rolls, per packages?
That's what will come out of you bucketing similar items together...you tell us...

Not each label nor each manual, or envelope.
If that's how it buckets, then yes. If that's not how it buckets, then no.

We don't know the ins and outs of your business, you do...what makes sense for this business?

If a case of 500 logo printed envelopes and a case of 1500 sheets of letterhead run about the same, then one case is one case.
If a case of 20 rolls of 1000 stickers each runs in time with a 500pc pack of manuals...there's your answer.
Consider still...it has to get down to "one".

One = 500pk manuals?
One = 20roll case of labels?
One = 500pc case of envelopes?
All of the above?
None of the above?
You have to decide what will work for your particular business flow that will give you value from your VSM...otherwise why bother?
 
#12
Similar Cycle times of subprocesses


That's what will come out of you bucketing similar items together...you tell us...


If that's how it buckets, then yes. If that's not how it buckets, then no.

We don't know the ins and outs of your business, you do...what makes sense for this business?

If a case of 500 logo printed envelopes and a case of 1500 sheets of letterhead run about the same, then one case is one case.
If a case of 20 rolls of 1000 stickers each runs in time with a 500pc pack of manuals...there's your answer.
Consider still...it has to get down to "one".

One = 500pk manuals?
One = 20roll case of labels?
One = 500pc case of envelopes?
All of the above?
None of the above?
You have to decide what will work for your particular business flow that will give you value from your VSM...otherwise why bother?
Thanks Ninja
Really Im new in this field, I know that for the exploding all the tools lean comprises is required knowledge and experience.
Really I have read info on the web and watched some webinars, and I thought was enough at least to start some lean tools and having partial benefits.
So questions, continue...

1 What is the importance of bucketing and why?
2 why similar cycle times?
3 Is it not better to run different cycles and products? This way different nva activities will come out?, I suppose that's the reason of analysis, to discover non value added points.
That is my idea , to run several analysis with several products and processes.
Please shed some light on me
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#13
1 What is the importance of bucketing and why?
2 why similar cycle times?
3 Is it not better to run different cycles and products? This way different nva activities will come out?, I suppose that's the reason of analysis, to discover non value added points.
1. You have three choices here...(1) run different processes through the same VSM and get unusable gibberish out the other end (2) run a different VSM for every product and spend forever doing it or (3) grouping similar things together and doing the VSM for each similar group (bucket). Option 3 gives you value for the least amount of work...that's why you bucket (group) them.

2. Different cycle times tends to be different VSMs...not always, but usually...so similar cycle times is your first rough cut toward grouping things into categories (buckets).

3. Your grouping will dictate this. If some have a bunch of NVA, and others have little...they wouldn't be grouped together. Keep a firm eye on what you're trying to accomplish in the end...doing VSM just to do it is not very useful. You have to be aiming at something valuable, and have some idea of what it is before you invest all this effort.

As I mentioned, we had two main products...but I ran 5 VSM's...even some of the similar products were different enough to make it worth separating out into a different group for analysis.

HTH
 
#14
1. You have three choices here...(1) run different processes through the same VSM and get unusable gibberish out the other end (2) run a different VSM for every product and spend forever doing it or (3) grouping similar things together and doing the VSM for each similar group (bucket). Option 3 gives you value for the least amount of work...that's why you bucket (group) them.

2. Different cycle times tends to be different VSMs...not always, but usually...so similar cycle times is your first rough cut toward grouping things into categories (buckets).

3. Your grouping will dictate this. If some have a bunch of NVA, and others have little...they wouldn't be grouped together. Keep a firm eye on what you're trying to accomplish in the end...doing VSM just to do it is not very useful. You have to be aiming at something valuable, and have some idea of what it is before you invest all this effort.

As I mentioned, we had two main products...but I ran 5 VSM's...even some of the similar products were different enough to make it worth separating out into a different group for analysis.

HTH
Thanks Ninja

For what I ´ve read, the purpose of a VSM is to remove NVA activities, considering the 7 wastes.

What I want to do is to detect NVA´s in the processes, and one way to do it, is to draw the current VSM, afterwards, to
design the future VSM, correcting what is needed.

Could you explain what is your purpose when using VSM´s?

My examples
Offset process
1- I have one product (manuals) which passes through 5 processes which run in 5 machines (machines a,b,c,d and e).
Detailing the vsm (current) I can get the NVA´s and VA, from here I will try to remove the NVA (future map) by implementing actions derived from the future map, all this is a VSM for one product, and thats all, in this case the client requests me manuals in different quantities.

Flexography process
2- I have other product (labels in roll) which passes through 1 process, which runs in 1 machine (machine g).
Detailing the vsm (current) I can get the NVA´s and VA, from here I will try to remove the NVA (future map) by implementing actions derived from the future map, all this is a VSM for one product, and thats all, in this case the client requests me rolls of different quantities of labels.

Serigraph process
2- I have other product (advertisements) which passes through 4 processes, in 4 machines (machine h, j,k and m).
Detailing the vsm (current) I can get the NVA´s and VA, from here I will try to remove the NVA (future map) by implementing actions derived from the future map, all this is a VSM for one product, and thats all, in this case the client requests me different quantities of printed sheets.

Summing up , I have different products running in different processes, different machines, different workers.

1- According what you say "run different processes through the same VSM"
in this case how I can do this?, if each VSM consider the known process and machines, running other different process is not possible.
2- According to this "run a different VSM for every product", this is what I plan to do, why you say forever?
3- "grouping similar things together and doing the VSM for each similar group (bucket) ", how? I can´t do it, because
if the cycle time is similar, ok, it could be, but they are different processes, different machines, dont understand
what is the benefit of doing this?

Could you explain what is your focus on doing VSM´s? , trying to "bucket" doing less analysis instead of
analyzing different products, processes, having as a result different scenarios, which lead me to "discover" more NVA´s
as a consequence, more corrections in processes.

Finally, Ninja, maybe I´m too newbie for this, since I cant understand totally all your explanations.
Could you give me a last deep explanation, or maybe suggest me a book or something
to understand it very well.
Thanks a lot
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#15
I think we're likely only missing one thing...perhaps not missing it at all, but I'm saying it out loud, and you may simply take it for granted...

Looks like you've already grouped things by process flow, so that's done.

Let's use your #1 as example: Offset process...5 steps, 5 machines.

For Product A, you have 5 steps (subprocesses) on five different machines as you described.
For Product B...it only uses four of those, A. B. C and D.
For Product C, it uses four, but they are A, B, D and E.
All one group, all one VSM
Lots of time saved over doing the three VSM's separately, and you still get to outline and identify any NVA steps.
 
#16
I think we're likely only missing one thing...perhaps not missing it at all, but I'm saying it out loud, and you may simply take it for granted...

Looks like you've already grouped things by process flow, so that's done.

Let's use your #1 as example: Offset process...5 steps, 5 machines.

For Product A, you have 5 steps (subprocesses) on five different machines as you described.
For Product B...it only uses four of those, A. B. C and D.
For Product C, it uses four, but they are A, B, D and E.
All one group, all one VSM
Lots of time saved over doing the three VSM's separately, and you still get to outline and identify any NVA steps.
Thanks ninja

But I go back, to the basics

As I understand, to create a VSM, includes to be on the field, "live" watching, registering many activities, starting when a PO is placed, when is received into the office, how long does it take to have the raw material form supplier, time taken for operators to do the machine setup,time spent for any adjustments, when stops for a failure, quantity of product in fail , time it takes for operator to bring raw from the warehouse,etc.
in my opinion too much information to be registered, and this is only for one product.
First , are you agree that is difficult to keep track of all of this? it consumes a lot of time?
Second, about the same time will be taken for the other product.
Third, similar activities for the rest.
Time taken for all the processes is too much.

What you say is to draw only VSM (one drawing, one map) for all?
But when machines,data, processes, people for all processes are represented, dont you think it may cause confusion? because
the boxes, objects are mixed, I think will not be clear what components belong to each product?

I know, I may save time drawing it, just one, but wouldn´t be better to spend more time drawing more, but more clear to be understood and evaluated.

Please explain it a little bit more.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#17
What you say is to draw only VSM (one drawing, one map) for all?
Nope, I gave examples of the opposite...

...some subprocesses were just so unique that they couldn't all flow into one.
As I mentioned, we had two main products...but I ran 5 VSM's...
One drawing, one map PER BUCKET...and bucketed according to whether it is logical that they are on one VSM...
One VSM for offset
Another for Serigraph
Another for Flexographic
...possibly more than one for each...depending on how similar your product mixes are...
 
#18
Ninja

Ok,
1 VSM for each bucket
1 offset
1 Serigraph
1 Flexo
Possible more according to mixes
Questions:

You said bucketing is to group products with similar cycle times, but why to do the bucketing
If I 've defined my products/processes?
for example: Could it be that bucketing, it may coincide in two processes (e.g. offset and flexo) thus
one bucket for both? not being necessary to analyze both?
Or why apply the bucketing?
Other question
You said ...posibbly more because product mixes, what do you mean by mixes?
Thanks






If bucketing (similar cycle time products)
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#19
You said bucketing is to group products with similar cycle times, but why to do the bucketing
If I 've defined my products/processes?
for example: Could it be that bucketing, it may coincide in two processes (e.g. offset and flexo) thus
one bucket for both? not being necessary to analyze both?
Yes. You answered your own question...good deal.

You said ...posibbly more because product mixes, what do you mean by mixes?
Do you have a product that goes through both flexographic AND offset before it is done, or has one flexo step, then something else? There always seem to be "special cases"... If so, you may choose a VSM just for that...
 
#20
Yes. You answered your own question...good deal.


Do you have a product that goes through both flexographic AND offset before it is done, or has one flexo step, then something else? There always seem to be "special cases"... If so, you may choose a VSM just for that...
Ninja, you Really helped me too much and appreciate it.
Other issues, why the bucketing consider similar cycle times, why not similar equipment, similar materials, similar work orders? What is the main reason?
Other issues, could you share some examples or recommend me some info or books?
Thanks again
 


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