Crystal Ball Methodology - reading customers' minds?

K

karin

#1
Hello, everyone!!

I've been a lurker for a few months and really value this site -- you all have such great imput and make me realize I'm not the only one going thru the "bad guy" syndrome at work while upgrading us from QS-9000 to TS2.

Okay, I have a question now, and if this has previously been addressed, please ignore, tell me to go away, and/or give me a link to the thread -- that would be appreciated.

7.2.2 ~ Where the customer provides no documented statement of requirement, the customer requirements shall be confirmed by the organization before acceptance.

HUH? :confused:

First of all, how do you implement that -- do you really have to say to the customer "um, are there any other requirements you're not telling me about that I need to confirm" -- sounds a tad insulting to me ...

Second of all, how would you document that this has been done -- I did download an awesome contract review check list posted by a member on this site, and it does have a box marked "requirements not stated by customer are defined" ... but how would you prove that?

Any input would be greatly, greatly appreciated. It's hard enough to get my coworkers on board with this stuff -- now I have to ask them to be mindreaders AND document the information they mindread!!! :bonk:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
B

ben sortin

#2
My tool of choice would be "Quality Function Deployment" (QFD). QFD is a planning tool which translates customer needs and wants into significant items on which to focus time, product improvement efforts, and other resources. If your company uses it with some discipline you may reduce the overall product development cycle.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#3
Don't forget that sometimes customers like to get on the phone and order things. In this case you know what the customer wants, it's just not documented. I believe this is really the intent of that text in the standard.

The "requirements not stated by customer are defined" part really comes in when you know more about your product than your customer, or when some things are just assumed but not stated. If I mail-order a toaster in the USA, I don't specify that it needs to be 115 volts. But if it shows up requiring 220, I'll be pretty hot...
 
K

karin

#4
ben sortin said:
My tool of choice would be "Quality Function Deployment" (QFD). QFD is a planning tool which translates customer needs and wants into significant items on which to focus time, product improvement efforts, and other resources. If your company uses it with some discipline you may reduce the overall product development cycle.
Ben ~ I did forget to mention that we are a value-added distributor. 90% of our business is straight distribution -- so our APQP process as it currently stands is making sure customer requirements are known and quoting them the correct product for their application. We do cut parts to length, also ...

As a distributor, I want to keep this all as simple as it can be -- sometimes the customer will ask us to send them 500' of a specific product they call out -- I guess what I'm saying is I just want to keep this as simple as possible for us (isn't that what we're all trying to do?)

I *really* appreciate your response!!

Karin
 
K

karin

#5
howste said:
Don't forget that sometimes customers like to get on the phone and order things. In this case you know what the customer wants, it's just not documented. I believe this is really the intent of that text in the standard.

The "requirements not stated by customer are defined" part really comes in when you know more about your product than your customer, or when some things are just assumed but not stated. If I mail-order a toaster in the USA, I don't specify that it needs to be 115 volts. But if it shows up requiring 220, I'll be pretty hot...
I wish the writers of the standard would ask normal people to read it over before they expect us to implement it -- I hate being in the position of interpreting their intent ...

And I appreciate your response ~ but let me ask, how do I document an assumption that we're meeting the customers' specifications? Should I work it into a procedure? Do you have any tips you can give?

Thanks so much!!!
 
C

Craig H.

#6
karin said:
I wish the writers of the standard would ask normal people to read it over before they expect us to implement it -- I hate being in the position of interpreting their intent ...

And I appreciate your response ~ but let me ask, how do I document an assumption that we're meeting the customers' specifications? Should I work it into a procedure? Do you have any tips you can give?

Thanks so much!!!

Karin:

Welcome to the Cove!

What I think of here (and we're ISO 9001, not TS, so take it for what its worth) are things like type of packaging and labeling, if a Certificate of Analysis is required, and if shipping information needs to be emailed or faxed. The customer might not think of stating the requirements for these up front, and that will cause problems when the item(s) show up and do not conform with their Quality System.

For instance, we have no stated requirement that the bags of our material should still be upright on the pallet when the customer's truck arrives at the customer's dock. Is it a requirement, nonetheless? You betcha!

Hope this helps

Craig
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
karin said:
...how do I document an assumption that we're meeting the customers' specifications? Should I work it into a procedure? Do you have any tips you can give?
How do you have your other "contract review" requirements documented? A verbal order is really no different than a PO or contract. You're already required to have records of review of requirements, only in this case you don't have anything in writing from their end. Just write down their requirements then review them the way you would any other order.

One last thought - you aren't required to have a record that you confirmed their order, but I would recommend a confirmation email or fax in case there's a dispute later...

BTW, I think that there are really two things that are being discussed in this thread - 7.2.2 review of requirements (which I'm addressing in this post), and 7.2.1b-d determination of requirements. I'm trying to keep clear what we're talking about.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
howste said:
...The "requirements not stated by customer are defined" part really comes in when you know more about your product than your customer, or when some things are just assumed but not stated...
I struggled with the Review vs. Determination thing too and this is what I also took it to mean in the end. I've attached an exerpt from our policy manual - some of our customers know exactly what they want, others rely on us to determine what they need. What do you guys think?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
howste said:
BTW, I think that there are really two things that are being discussed in this thread - 7.2.2 review of requirements (which I'm addressing in this post), and 7.2.1b-d determination of requirements. I'm trying to keep clear what we're talking about.
Oops - you're right. I was looking at 7.2.1.

For 7.2.2 - we use a verbal order form.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Never confused on this point

Cari Spears said:
I struggled with the Review vs. Determination thing too and this is what I also took it to mean in the end. I've attached an exerpt from our policy manual - some of our customers know exactly what they want, others rely on us to determine what they need. What do you guys think?

PS - We're ISO not TS.
Am I the only one who NEVER was confused about the intent of 'confirming customer requirements'?

It always seemed straightforward to me:
If the customer didn't provide WRITTEN detailed description of his requirements for a custom product (versus off-the-shelf item), it was our job to ask questions until we were sure we understood. Once we made the determination, we WROTE it down (copy to customer for confirmation via FAX or [now] email when time was a factor.)

With an off-the-shelf item, we made doubly sure customer made no error when ordering by phone ("Part number 15-345? Yessir, to confirm so I have it right, you want a green spindizzy for a framsit. Is that correct?")
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Minitab and Crystal Ball Statistical Analysis Software Using Minitab Software 13
Marc The world's largest LCD TV, a behemoth 108-inch liquid-crystal display After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 2
Steve McQuality Visual Enterprise/Crystal Reports - Anyone Using This System? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 12
K RoHS requirements FOR Liqual Crystal Display and Liqual Crystal Module OEM RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 8
apestate Advice on maintaining surface plate condition - Starrett crystal pink surface plate Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 14
Marc Golf Ball Parts for Breakfast! World News 8
M 15.3.3 Ball Impact Test requirements in IEC 60601-1 IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 2
W Profilometer Surface Roughness Tester Issue - Ball Bearings ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
J Ball Bearing V-Blocks to ensure Lobing and Roundness are Minimal Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
A JEDEC Std to use as reference for a package of size of 29x29mm with 0.8mm ball pitch Design and Development of Products and Processes 6
J IEC 60601 (Steel Ball Impact Test) Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
Wes Bucey Did somebody drop the ball at Boeing? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 38
smryan Does the NIST certificate that came with my new ball-bar have any value? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 8
C Sunday Morning Curve Ball - Auditing Racing Stables or Similar ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
T AS9102 FAI - What is a distributor of ball bearings supposed to do? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
J Scrap, Control or Marking - Ball Bearing Distribution and Re-Lubrication AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
Marc Happy 100th birthday to Lucille Ball World News 3
M DFAR Ball Bearings - DFARS 252.225.7014 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Ring Gauges P.D Formula using "Ball Rounded Teeth" General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 13
G Effects of CMM Probe Tip Ball Size measuring a Round Part OD - CMM Help Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 18
Sidney Vianna AS9100 Revision C Transition - A curve ball AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
bobdoering How's this for a probability function? Player Hits Own Mom With Foul Ball Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 7
P Sample Manufacturing Method for Ball Drop Test of Automotive Tempered Glass General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
D ASTM E-18 Annex A3 - Ball and Diamond Indenters Requirements General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
N Score One for the Team - I had to ball up and tell the bosses Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 7
Z Injection Molding cycle time benchmarking - Ball State University student Benchmarking 10
Sidney Vianna Ball Memorial Hospital - The first Indiana hospital to receive NIAHO accreditation Hospitals, Clinics & other Health Care Providers 1
I How Must Safety Integrity Level (SIL) For Ball Valves Be Calculated? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 3
J Large CMM Calibration - Tetronom or Giant Ball Bar General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
G Ball Grid Array (BGA) component Incoming Inspection IPC-7095 Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3
K Play this game. Try to kick the ball & beat me !! Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 20
N Claiming exemptions (N/A) in AS9100D - what is the methodology and location? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
O QRQC (quick response quality control) methodology in automotive industry IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
N Medical Device Software - Switch from Waterfall to Agile methodology Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics 4
S Window Analysis Methodology for category A, B, C and D Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 2
C Unable to Demonstrate FIFO Methodology ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
C Gage R&R Measurement Location Methodology Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
Z What to write on A3 Methodology Recognition Certificates? Six Sigma 2
M Please help to analyze Response Surface Methodology by using Minitab 16 Using Minitab Software 6
D Thoughts on the Implementation and Effectiveness of A3 methodology Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 2
Z A 5S (Workplace Organization Methodology) Christmas Poem Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 5
M Bottom-Up Methodology to Track Root Cause? Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 4
V Production Development Process APQP Methodology APQP and PPAP 9
S Security Gap Assessment Methodology based on ISO 27001 or COBIT IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 1
B Problem Solving Methodology Help - Shainin/Red X Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 19
R Define Data from Taguchi to Response Surface Methodology in Minitab Using Minitab Software 2
P Use of Social Research Methodology in Quality Management and Applied Science Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 5
S Weld Cell Repeatability Studies - Origin - The 'drilled hole panel' Methodology Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
D Reliability Growth methodology (Duane, CrowAMSAA) - Test Planning Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 5
C "Destructive" Linearity Study Methodology Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom