Culture Shock and Things Need to Change - Implementing ISO 9001

[Jim Wynne]

I am amazed by what I have read here. Everyone is missing the boat. Its not management, the employees, lack of caring etc. The system is broken, plain and simple.
I am afraid, and others might disagree, but being ISO certified is not going to solve any of your issues. Your in a classic position of a company having done nothing for thirty years, investing in machines to solve problems, etc, when they have no idea that the company operation is obsolete.
I am going to tell you to forget ISO certification at this point in time, and instead get someone on board that knows Lean, 5S, six sigma, etc. and go out and fix your processes now. With a good lean person, you can do some quick and major turn arounds to your processes in days and weeks. Hire a Lean consultant if you have too, but do it now. Your job as a quality manager is to assure product quality and improve the organization. ISO certification will do neither at this point in time. By the time you get certified you might be out of business.

You mention the employees, train them in Lean principals, as they are your major resource, that will turn things around for you. They must be involved in all lean efforts, as applicable.

You need to go to management and sell them on getting a Lean expert on board now, to turn things around. Of course you'll have to work directly with the Lean person, and do what has to be done.

Think I am kidding about Lean? We were the same way, and it has saved us, and countless other companies.

Good luck.

Lean, SS, and ISO have never saved anyone, or anything. What makes a difference is leadership, and giving people permission to change things. The OP's company is a rudderless ship, and unless someone steps up and mans the tiller, the ship will drift aimlessly into oblivion.

Edit: An astute observer might recognize that my ship metaphor sank like a stone. Why would a rudderless ship have a tiller?

 

[kreco]

The OP's company is a rudderless ship, and unless someone steps up and mans the tiller, the ship will drift aimlessly into oblivion.

I think this is a great analysis of the situation. And completely 100% agree. We have started 5S and have a consultant on board to conduct that in all areas. And we've seen some great results, but it's in the early stages and follow through will be critical. At this point I do feel that Sr. Mgt isn't clear as to the direction we need to ALL move in together.

And while I don't think an ISO certificate in itself will save the company, (going through the motions just to get the wallpaper) but I am a firm believer in defined processes & controlled, documented work instructions. Not to mention a clear, concise training program and those are all part of the requirements of ISO. Not to mention it forces a company to define goals.

I can't speak to a "lean" environment because I can't say I've ever worked in a company that truly practiced those principals. I have no doubt that any system will help to improve a company with no systems.

But I'm here so I can learn from those who have "been there, done that" and those with enough wisdom to contribute constructively to aid me in being the best QM I can be given the current cirucmstances.

 

[Logic]

I am amazed by what I have read here. Everyone is missing the boat. Its not management, the employees, lack of caring etc. The system is broken, plain and simple.
I am afraid, and others might disagree, but being ISO certified is not going to solve any of your issues. Your in a classic position of a company having done nothing for thirty years, investing in machines to solve problems, etc, when they have no idea that the company operation is obsolete.
I am going to tell you to forget ISO certification at this point in time

By the time you get certified you might be out of business.

I agree that you should forget about ISO certification at the moment. The company cannot be certified until it has good systems and processes in place, anyway. You certainly would not expect a child in kindergarten to be ready to write the SAT exams so you need to start at the beginning with the ABCs. Mentioning ISO to employees that have not mentally committed to the idea of standards will just cause eyes to glaze over or at best, roll over. They have to understand what is in it for them.

Identify the issues which could cause a calamitous collapse of the company in the next 6, 12, 18 months if not fixed. If things are as bad as you say, that should not be too difficult to identify, especially after the "big purchase". Communicate the risk to employees and enlist their help to turn it around. Ask for suggestions, seriously consider them, discuss with management and get their agreement if necessary. Give feedback to employees whether the suggestions are followed or not and make it a workplace where staff is motivated to contribute to improvements. Use buzzwords like making it a workplace of choice or any of the current feel-good phrases. I hate these phrases and am only recommending them as an antidote to blase. You need to change the mood in the company.

An exit strategy needs to be developed for those employees who are not willing to step up to the plate to help save the company, which translates to their livelihood. This is necessary if the company wants to avoid having them contaminating the pool of those who want to give it a try.

Feel free to call me an optimist but if staff feels valued, they often surprise everyone including themselves. This may all seem simplistic and pie-in-the-sky but politicians use the technique all the time and win landslide elections.

Good Luck

 

[dna_leri]

Kreco,

I have been in a similar situation - brought in to upgrade a Quality System when the sky was falling in. Jim is right about "manning the tiller" but first you need to know where you are going.

As a management team you need to set a vision for where you need to be in 6, 12, 24 months, then figure out the 5-10 critical strategies that will get you there. Implementing a certified quality system may be one of them (it may not). If it is not, as a quality manager there are plenty of other tasks/projects that you can lead. Everyone in the organisation should be working on one of these critical strategies.

My experience was that the ISO certificate was not one of the critical items, developing Montoring and Measurement Processes was (so you know if you are getting better). 5S was critical because it got people involved, you will figure out your own priorities. I would also recommend using the minimum number of consultants possible and only where you have a real short-term knowledge gap - much better to give the task to someone in the organisation.

Your job as a quality manager is to call it as you see it, focus on what the customer wants.

Good Luck.

 

[RG Ohidy]

I agree that management must buy into what your suggesting, i.e. lean initiatives. A suggestion would be to find some companies in your area that are into lean, companies that know what Lean is about, and how to use it, people that can educate your management on the virtues of Lean.
As was mentioned, goals must be set, over the next 3, 6, 12 months, etc, and progress measured against them.

Fixing your processes now, via lean, and documenting standard work will save paperwork down the road in establishing work instructions, procedures, forms etc.

If you build a solid foundation of processes that are documented, and have measureables, it will be that much easier later to implement an ISO system.



Again best of luck.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

How in the world do you get an entire organization to get in gear and be accountable for their actions?

You can't do it. Only top management can, IF they are committed to it. From what you describe, it is very possible that the people who could effect change at your organization might not want to do it. Having allowed for 3 decades of dysfunctional operation might not have a solution other than driving oneself out of business.

But I'm here so I can learn from those who have "been there, done that" and those with enough wisdom to contribute constructively to aid me in being the best QM I can be given the current cirucmstances.

One thing I can tell you for sure: The job of a PROGRESSIVE Q Mgr. should NOT be how to better inspect a product, or how to tighten existing verification activities. Dysfunctional behavior can be temporarily influenced via either stick and/or carrot strategies, but they are temporary fixes that can not overpower dysfunctional culture in the long term.

As usual, best of luck to you.

 

[SteelMaiden]

As stated previously, ISO 9001 or any other set of numbers, 5s, 6S, Lean, nor any other program is going to fix your problem until you and the management sit down and make a plan for what you want to happen.

Once you decide what it is you want, then you must decide how to get there. Once you have all that figured out, then you and management need to show a united front and roll up your sleeves to get it done. Start with people or areas where you can make some allies in your quest. Then keep on moving kind of like ripples in a pond.

Until it is more uncomfortable to keep up the old methods then it is to change, you will not get very far. And by comfort/uncomfortable, I do not mean that punishment needs to be meted out, but more so that praise and pride of accomplishment needs to replace the old ways.

 

[Logic]

I agree that you should forget about ISO certification at the moment. The company cannot be certified until it has good systems and processes in place, anyway. You certainly would not expect a child in kindergarten to be ready to write the SAT exams so you need to start at the beginning with the ABCs. Mentioning ISO to employees that have not mentally committed to the idea of standards will just cause eyes to glaze over or at best, roll over. They have to understand what is in it for them.
...

It has been said that great minds think alike, fools seldom differ.
Well, there is another thread going right now Enterprise Management vs Quality Management as Processes - Differences that says:

Most people have zero interest in a QMS...they rightly ask, what's in it for me (WIIFM)? And they have less than zero interest in ISO 9000.

I only ever talk about business, I try to go days and weeks without saying the word quality.

Quality is a result of a business system. Sometimes it is a department within a business system. It is an output of the business system.

Trying to drive the business with quality is why so many of us are so frustrated in our profession (see the many sad threads here).

The best tool we have is cost of poor quality. Every problem has a dollar cost. Business systems can be put in place to sometimes avoid those costs. (notice I didn't say quality).

These costs are huge, know them, use them to sell.

Radio? Lost revenues due to lost advertisers? Lost any big accounts lately? Why? Lost a lot of small accounts lately? Why?

WIIFM? Imagine a day with no problems, no complaints....that's WIIFM

What could you do if you didn't have to fight fires all day?

The worst mistake ISO made was to put the word quality in the title.

These are business management systems, but because of that horrible word in the title they get delegated to the department least able to make the changes needed.

I am a broken record, every time there is a problem I can be counted on to say, imagine if we had a system in place to anticipate that....think of the effort and money we could have saved...and gee, look here is a system we could try..its called ISO 9000....

Found it interesting.

 

[RG Ohidy]

Ah yes, ..."if we had a system, say like ....ISO 9000"

But, the horse is out of the barn, and oh by the way, the barn is burning.

Do we talk about establishing procedures, as per ISO, to prevent the horse from having gotten free in the first place, or do we go and fight the fire, in order to save the barn, so that we have a place to put the horse when all is said and done?

Fight the fire, save the barn, put the horse away, and then put your management procedures in place for the future.

 

[JaneB]

Lots of good advice, most of which I agree with.

You can't do it. Only top management can, IF they are committed to it.

I think attempting to treat it as 'brand new organisation' won't work - because it is not. It has many,many years of history doing things the old way, which means a significant effort to try and change the culture.

A couple of references which might help are:

• Cracking the Corporate Culture Code - Unwritten Ground Rules, Steve Simpson,
  
• The Change Agents' Handbook, a surivival guide for quality improvement champions, David Hutton

both well worth reading and very applicable here. For example, if workers are told one day 'we do a quality job' and then 'it's close enough, ship it', the Unwritten Ground Rule is: near enough is good enough, and that's what will prevail.

The job of a PROGRESSIVE Q Mgr. should NOT be how to better inspect a product, or how to tighten existing verification activities. Dysfunctional behavior can be temporarily influenced via either stick and/or carrot strategies, but they are temporary fixes that can not overpower dysfunctional culture in the long term.

Very true. Don't own the entire problem - it's an issue of top management, and requires concerted, sustained leadership by example and direction from the entire management team.

One thing that might be useful is to estimate the cost of quality. What's it COSTING the company in failures? Because if it goes on like this, sounds like it is doomed to go out of business. If so, everyone's out of a job.