Customer Approval - Three Strikes and you're Out? Is the 3 Strikes Rule a Myth?

Manix

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#1
HI All,

It has long been quoted in my company that if you are awaiting customer approval on something (normally a PPAP in our case), and you are struggling to get it, you are allowed to offer the 3 strikes and your out policy.

This is where you have requested approval/status of approval in writing three times, but have not received a response.

Now I am talking about PPAP's and not engineering approval, because I nearly always get engineering change approvals, because these are usually to get the customer out of the brown stuff! However a PPAP approval is often harder to get. They have your part approval documentation therefore they have got what they want. In order to keep my paperwork up, I need that PSW signed, but that is the hard part!

Is the 3 strikes rule a myth? Or is this a common business unwritten (or written) rule?

Before anyone asks, it is a level 3 PPAP so a response from the customer is required.
 
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N

Nette

#2
I have never heard of the 3 strikes.

We have had this issue many times and never really found a way to get round it.

Our auditor has in the passed been satisfied if we can show evidence, eg emails, to show that we have chased it.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#3
Ha Manix,

I thought it is a 'British Legal Practice'. We follow it in Malaysia also. If you can show proof that you had given the other party 3 notices spread out over a reasonable period of time, you are deemed to have given sufficient notice and had done whatever necessary and therefore may proceed with subsequent actions.

Remember that there must be evidence and that's why notices are usually delivered in registered mail where the other party had to acknowledge receipt.

Regards.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#4
I've never heard of the "three strikes". I usually expect a turnaround of the PPAP within 2 weeks before I begin "bugging" a customer. Since most of our "engineering changes" involve changes to a die and, therefore, physical changes to the part, I have had to, on occasion, call/email my SQE and simply state that we will not be shipping product until the approval is received. That has normally gotten things going on the customer's end, either with a deviation or the actual approved PSW being returned. If it doesn't get handled at my level, I elevate it to purchasing/sales. I do, however, stand firm on the shipping of unapproved product.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
I couldn't imagine going onward with production without approval. I CAN imagine writing a clause into a contract for money damages if a customer delays MY production beyond a set time period.

Once experienced, I imagine a supplier would take great pains to alert customers thereafter of the "new" policy.

Obviously, if the supplier is under the economic thumb of the customer, the supplier will toady up and take all the abuse the customer hands out.

Ultimately, the question is one of honest communication in which the supplier helps the customer understand the economic implication to the customer of delays which increase the supplier's costs.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#6
Ha Manix,

I thought it is a 'British Legal Practice'. We follow it in Malaysia also. If you can show proof that you had given the other party 3 notices spread out over a reasonable period of time, you are deemed to have given sufficient notice and had done whatever necessary and therefore may proceed with subsequent actions.

Remember that there must be evidence and that's why notices are usually delivered in registered mail where the other party had to acknowledge receipt.

Regards.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that would hold up in USA?
 

Manix

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#7
Obviously, if the supplier is under the economic thumb of the customer, the supplier will toady up and take all the abuse the customer hands out.
Not sure what industry you work in Wes, but an Automotive line stop would cost us dearly and would put us more than under the economic thumb as it were! Yes maybe shipping product not offcially signed off would present a line stoip also, but it comes with authority from the customer. What the customer wants, the customer get's and unfortunately a signed off PSW does not carry the weight it should with some organisations.

The attitude with some of my customers is "the products fine, just ship so we don't get a line stop!" and the PSW will come as a paper exercise later. Yes I can hear you all taking a sharp intake of breath at that!:mg: But it's reality, especially with Tier 1's (my company working as Tier 2). We don't normally get this with OEM's though, so calm down!

I don't believe I am the only one with this experience! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
HI All,

It has long been quoted in my company that if you are awaiting customer approval on something (normally a PPAP in our case), and you are struggling to get it, you are allowed to offer the 3 strikes and your out policy.This is where you have requested approval/status of approval in writing three times, but have not received a response.
I am sorry to say that I have never heard of this rule throughout my many years in Quality. Why in the World would a customer/company want to allow a Supplier three strikes? If I am your customer I wouldn't accept such a broad statement. I would expect, and require by the contract nothing less than receiving approval prior to production/shipment. Consider this: The contract requires PPAP approval prior to production/shipment. If approval of the PPAP isn't received, the supplier is not late on delivery because it is required by contract to receive this approval prior to production/shipment. It now falls under awaiting customer approval.

I would attempt to change this thought pattern.

Now I am talking about PPAP's and not engineering approval, because I nearly always get engineering change approvals, because these are usually to get the customer out of the brown stuff! However a PPAP approval is often harder to get. They have your part approval documentation therefore they have got what they want. In order to keep my paperwork up, I need that PSW signed, but that is the hard part!

Is the 3 strikes rule a myth? Or is this a common business unwritten (or written) rule?

Before anyone asks, it is a level 3 PPAP so a response from the customer is required.
I believe I have answered this question. If there is a problem with receiving approval, then how would it hurt to contact the customer and find out the why? Customer communication should be your company's top priority.
 
V

Valeri

#9
Based on some nasty history, we have a formalized notification system with 4 steps when we have not received pertinent information in a timely manner, e.g. ramp-up schedule, final product prints/specifications, DFMEA, etc.

We notify the customer, prior to PPAP due date:

#1 - 3 weeks
#2 - 1 week
#3 - On due date
#4 - 3 days past due date - program is now on hold and the PPAP date will be moved out.

This seems to work.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
I agree with Bill Ryan on this one, and I'm speaking from an OEM standpoint. Why is everyone so afraid to give the customer what he asked for? If the agreement is that product may not be shipped without PPAP approval, then you don't ship product until you get PPAP approval. It is as simple as that. You'd be amazed at how fast that warrant will get signed if you tell the customer that his product is on the dock, waiting to be shipped, but it ain't goin' nowhere until you receive approval (or some sort of official dispensation that allows shipment).
 
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