Customer complaint over a Reference Dimension

GunLake

Involved In Discussions
#1
Has anyone had a complaint for a reference dimension being out?

The dimension was out even during ppap, Which was accepted. But now they sent a complaint about it.

I am new as a Quality Manager, Very limited customer contact in my last QA Tech job, So not sure what my main course of action is here.
 
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#2
What type of feature are you referring to - feature of size or note or material or something else? We don't hold our suppliers to meet a reference dimension so seems I'm not hearing the whole story here. Could you elaborate?
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#4
Could you elaborate?
Yes please...

A dimension being "out" typically means that there is a tolerance to be within...and I've not seen tolerances on a reference dimension before...
...or is it "out" of the standard drawing tolerance only?
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Show the dimension as it was ppap'd and accepted and leave it as that. Unless the customer makes more noise about it - tell them to get you a updated print with tolerances on the dimension and re-submit PPAP.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
I am new as a Quality Manager, Very limited customer contact in my last QA Tech job, So not sure what my main course of action is here.
People can only speculate, but, sometimes, when a customer is experiencing a business downturn, they will use ANY issue to reject parts from suppliers.

As for the reference dimension being out, now that you know that, you need to implement corrective actions to prevent it's recurrence.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#8
As for the reference dimension being out, now that you know that, you need to implement corrective actions to prevent it's recurrence.
While I agree with the direction, I think it's a bit too soon to say that as a blanket statement...there remain unanswered pertinent questions above.

It may be that you are correct...but it may be that this is just a "new guy at the customer" red herring just as easily.
This still seems like an initial entry into cooperative discussion with the customer, perhaps leading to either your assertion, or it being renounced by someone else at the customer.

Regardless, it is a complaint and should be handled through the complaint handling system.
 

CycleMike

Registered Visitor
#9
Make sure the reference dimension isn't shown somewhere else on the print. It's common for a toleranced dimension to be shown as a (ref) in a different view.
 

John Predmore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
It's common for a toleranced dimension to be shown as a (ref) in a different view.
Reference dimension may also indicate a mating dimension from a different part number in an assembly, perhaps a a commercial-off-the-shelf part, shown for convenience. The dimension from the other part number must still be held for proper function, but the dimension comes via a different design authority, so it is cited as reference on your drawing. If the reference dimension serves as a crucial customer interface, although it serves no direct purpose in your manufacturing system, it might be wise to check the reference dimension to ensure customer satisfaction. We verified key dimensions of electrical connectors in our PPAP, for example.

The other example where I have seen reference dimension used is when two dimensions add to a total length, and only 2 of the 3 are detailed with a tolerance. As a convenience, the untoleranced dimension might be shown as reference, particularly if the calculation of the stack-up is not obvious, if the component dimensions do not appear in the same view. The third dimension is important, maybe less critical than the two, but the third length is determined by calculation.

In the latest Y14.5 drafting standard, reference dimensions do not appear with the "REF" identifier, but are shown in parentheses.
 
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