Customer Complaint & SCAR, false data

[John H]

I am having a difficult time trying to create a 5 Why. A customer detected out of specification parts and sent a SCAR. The issue is that the operator measured the parts out of spec (way out of spec - Control Chart was very obvious) and still placed parts into inventory. The operator also skipped several checks in the manufacturing data base (based upon the control plans) as well as did not perform frequency checks in some other instances. To be blunt - the operator will be at best slightly reprimanded. This is somewhat normal where I work. Any suggestions on how to perform a 5 Why? I am of the opinion I treat the whole thing as fact based and continue going until the root cause is discovered and a preventive action is put in place.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

The first step is to ask the person responsible for accepting non conforming product why he did it. Lack of discipline? Carelessness? Mind not on the job? Incompetent to measure characteristics? Anyone here could only wild guess causation for the faux pas.

If, as you say, this is somewhat common at your workplace, there is an obvious cultural misfit towards quality accountability.

 

[Jim Wynne]

To be blunt - the operator will be at best slightly reprimanded. This is somewhat normal where I work.

The one who makes the decision on the "slight reprimand" should be the one who answers the complaint. Don't paint yourself into a corner.

 

[Ninja]

This is somewhat normal where I work.

Is this an exaggeration?
I certainly hope so....

 

[John H]

Is this an exaggeration?
I certainly hope so....

No - it is not an exaggeration. I completed a product audit late 2020 on a different product line and found that the frequency checks were not being completed within the timeframe required. I re-audited the CA several weeks ago randomly picking work orders from the floor and nothing changed. I also completed a process audit late fall last year (I work for a Tier II supplier/IATF) and the audit was horrific. Certified operators did not know how do certain Control Plan measurement checks as well as data not being put into the database...Suspect of Controlled Product got out the door. I am trying to learn a lot with the objective of leaving but I have zero guidance within the company.

 

[Ninja]

Are you in a position, or more important do you have the support of someone in a position, to raise a red flag to management that they will see?

If management doesn't care...just leave and work somewhere else.
If management doesn't know...you have a chance to be a change agent and overall hero (read promotion and raises).

Management only puts value on some input channels...I know, I'm in management...and there are some folks I wouldn't trust enough to look further, just nod and move on. Others I would take seriously for any topic. (right or wrong...who knows...but it isn't about me.)

In my experience, well over 50% of what you describe (by company count) happens because mgmt doesn't know. Assuming that this is the case in your company...do you have a channel to tell them...specifically a channel that they will actually listen to?

One of my vendors is a train wreck (but far cheaper than the next nearest competitor). They spend $100K per month for a system that doesn't work...I could build them a system that did work for $30K one time fee... but I have no channel to communicate this that they will listen to.
The point...look for that channel that they listen to, it's the only way to find out if they care.

Good luck!

 

[Ninja]

Off topic...but related...
I used to work in a company at entry level scientist position...saw horrific stuff like you describe, and looked for a communication channel as I described above.

When I found one, we worked together and I just fed him info and did all the heavy lifting on the floor.
Turns out that Mgmt had recently become aware of the issues, and they DID care.
I clearly remember (always will) sitting at his desk when he was promoted to quality manager. I remember asking him "Are you willing to build a company together, while we work for it?"

Fast forward 8 very busy years: He was Managing Director for the site, I was Asst Director of Operations reporting to him...and NPAT had increased 3x...and we didn't have to slog through the stuff you are describing anymore (and we had profit sharing on that 3x increase).

If you can find that communications channel...and Mgmt cares...this is a great opportunity for you if you want it.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

No - it is not an exaggeration. I completed a product audit late 2020 on a different product line and found that the frequency checks were not being completed within the timeframe required. I re-audited the CA several weeks ago randomly picking work orders from the floor and nothing changed. I also completed a process audit late fall last year (I work for a Tier II supplier/IATF) and the audit was horrific. Certified operators did not know how do certain Control Plan measurement checks as well as data not being put into the database...Suspect of Controlled Product got out the door. I am trying to learn a lot with the objective of leaving but I have zero guidance within the company.

I feel for you, but, you obviously cannot change the dysfunctional organizational culture. What you describe seems to be a deeply ingrained disdain for personal responsibility and accountability to adhere to established processes and quality. The bit about nothing have changed after an audit discover a problem and the corrective action being totally ineffective is quite telling.

Since the organization is required to be certified to the IATF 16949, don’t the CB auditors find any of these atrocities during their audits? If the lack of discipline is so wide spread, you would think that the CB auditors would find these and the quality escapes would generate a lot of customer complaints and SCARs.

 

[John C. Abnet]

I am of the opinion I treat the whole thing as fact based and continue going until the root cause is discovered

Good day @John H . Yes, this is exactly the intent of a proper 5whys. Please allow me to add that while I certainly have no doubt that an operator skipped numerous steps as you state, "operator error' is never an acceptable end (root cause) of a 5 whys result. I am extremely sympathetic to your situation and the frustrations. I spent 21 years in 1st tier automotive...mostly with Japanese OEM (Honda for example has a 5p, which is a very beneficial problem solving tool that incorporates the 5whys as its foundation).

If an operator skipped step(s), then we must continue with "why" did the operator miss steps. In my entire career I've never experienced an actual malicious act/sabotage by an operator. Oh, operators have done or not done out of frustration,...but , we will ALWAYS have operators and so, we can't allow the root cause to end there.
(On a side note, to make a presentation at Honda or Toyota [for example] and conclude that the cause was "operator error" would be to ask your head handed to you. The automotive industry [my customers/experiences] would never accept operator error to be identified as root cause). It always shocks me, therefore, to hear the NTSB state that "the determination was pilot error". Well, what that means (since the pilot in question is dead), is that there is no corrective action and every other pilot is at risk of repeating the accident. Unconscionable.)

I'd be glad to review your 5whys and make suggestions for you. Feel free to DM me here or contact me via
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnabnet-rakumanagementsystems/

Hope this helps.

Be well.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Good day @John H If an operator skipped step(s), then we must continue with "why" did the operator miss steps.

The problem with this approach is: as reported, this is NOT the case of a single individual, an isolated case; it is rampant, endemic and on-going. Any attempt to "treat" this one case, without paying attention to the context of the organization is foolish, in my opinion. Especially when, as already reported, similar attempts in the past ended up with corrective actions that proved to be totally ineffective.