Customer Property documentation (Audit Finding) - Clause 7.5.4

6thsense

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hie. in our last audit, the auditors noted the following finding; "The exclusions outlined on the quality manual had not been satisfactorily justified. the plant has excluded customer property yet within the plant customer property was identified". Our CAP was to include clause 7.5.4. were do i start:eek:?

with regards to the procurement policy, i need examples from those that do use one.

Regards,
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: clause 7.5.4 and a procurement policy

Hie. in our last audit, the auditors noted the following finding; "The exclusions outlined on the quality manual had not been satisfactorily justified. the plant has excluded customer property yet within the plant customer property was identified". Our CAP was to include clause 7.5.4. were do i start:eek:?

with regards to the procurement policy, i need examples from those that do use one.

Regards,
I assume that this was an external audit?

Did you agree with the finding? Was it indeed customer property that the auditor observed?

If so, you should utilize your organization's corrective action procedure:
  • State the nonconformity in clear terms.
  • Perform a simple rootcause analysis (if you are "new" to ISO, it could simply be due to a misinterpretation of the requirement)
  • Come up with a corrective action stating that you include 7.5.4 in your organization's Quality Manual.
  • Inform all affected/impacted within your organization.
  • Verify effectiveness.
Case closed.

Stijloor.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: clause 7.5.4 and a procurement policy

Hello,

1) I would start with a list of what is in your company that is customer owned, and ask yourself why the system did not recognize the items were there. I would think about what should be changed in current procedures so customer owned property can be recognized for what it is when it arrives. An understanding and declaration of this root cause should accompany the new process in your management system. :2cents: You should address why you made an invalid exclusion.

2) The list of customer owned property should include who the owners are; each of them should have instructions available for you to use for properly caring for this property, especially if it is special or outside industry practices. In other words, find out if there is special handling and storage involved, what it is, and record it for the items. I would make a table in an e-file document to store this information. If necessary, I would contact the customer(s) and ask. This includes packaging, handling and shipping in case you need to send it back to them.

3) I would also identify any calibration and maintenance requirement(s) associated with these items. I would define if this is to be managed by the customer, when, and whom to contact. I would record this information in my table.

4) I would define a means to identify the customer owned property as whom it belongs to. If there are many items from a single customer, I would consider a numbering scheme. I would add this information in the table.

5) I would consider how often this document should be reviewed for its current information and applicability - how it will be stored and protected, for how long etc...regular document control stuff.

I may be making this too complex, but these are the types of controls I would implement as I interpret the standard is asking for. What matters even more than the standard is your customer, of course.

I hope this helps!
 
Last edited:

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Hi,:bigwave:
As far as I know, the only thing that can be excluded is the Clause 7.3. Though you excluded Customer property, which falls under clause 7.5.4. In this regard, you need to describe what are the requirements of clause 7.5.4 that can be applied to your factory. You also need to specify what particular customer property you are referring to.
With regard to procurement policy, kindly elaborate. Thanks.
Raffy:cool:
 

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
#6
Hi,:bigwave:
As far as I know, the only thing that can be excluded is the Clause 7.3. Though you excluded Customer property, which falls under clause 7.5.4. In this regard, you need to describe what are the requirements of clause 7.5.4 that can be applied to your factory. You also need to specify what particular customer property you are referring to.
With regard to procurement policy, kindly elaborate. Thanks.
Raffy:cool:
Raffy - Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but in ISO 9001:2000, an organization may exclude ANY requirement from Clause 7 as long as they can justify that the lack of fulfillment will not negatively impact the organization's ability to meet the Customers' needs.

The company I work for excludes Customer Property. All specifications of products are provided by ASTM or an other recognized source. We do not produce product, receive payment from the Customer and then store the product until the Customer needs it...we make, we ship, they pay. We do not receive raw materials from the Customer with the intent for the final product to contain said materials.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
Hi,:bigwave:
As far as I know, the only thing that can be excluded is the Clause 7.3. Though you excluded Customer property, which falls under clause 7.5.4. In this regard, you need to describe what are the requirements of clause 7.5.4 that can be applied to your factory. You also need to specify what particular customer property you are referring to.
With regard to procurement policy, kindly elaborate. Thanks.
Raffy:cool:
If I recall correctly Raffy, your company is dealing with TS 16949. In that standard only 7.3 for product design (but not mfg. process design) can be excluded. As Roxane said above, for ISO 9001 any requirement in clause 7 can be considered for exclusion.
 

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
#8
If I recall correctly Raffy, your company is dealing with TS 16949. In that standard only 7.3 for product design (but not mfg. process design) can be excluded. As Roxane said above, for ISO 9001 any requirement in clause 7 can be considered for exclusion.
Ah, that would explain things! Thanks for the clarification. :bigwave:
 

6thsense

Involved In Discussions
#9
well the company i work for is into beverage making. packaging is PET. the customer property found was
1) a TANK for Holding Nitrogen Gas for when we used to make packaged water with a nitrogen blanket....its branded
2) 1 tonne bags with PET resin (both empty and with the resin)

thanx all of u
 
#10
well the company i work for is into beverage making. packaging is PET. the customer property found was
1) a TANK for Holding Nitrogen Gas for when we used to make packaged water with a nitrogen blanket....its branded
2) 1 tonne bags with PET resin (both empty and with the resin)

thanx all of u
So is the nitrogen gas tank provided by the customer? And the PET resin? If so, is this normal for the customer to provide this to you?

I'm also interested to know if this was your first ISO 9001 audit, or if it's a surveillance? Also, is your organization 'new' to having customers provide this type of thing? If so, you might want to have a look at your management review process and see why this 'new' customer requirement wasn't put into the review (your review might not be frequent enough) for action.

Management should have planned for this. Someone in Business Development signed up for this job and an effective planning process was not followed. Indeed, taken to its logical extreme, how could a tank of gas or container of PET, owned by a customer come through Receiving, be 'approved for use' and be found on the palnt floor? By all that is reasonable, it shouldn't have made it past the door!

So, my advice is - don't just address the 'exclusion' of 'Customer Property', you need to look into the bigger picture.......
 
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