Customer Property Identification Requirement - ISO 9001 Clause 7.5.4

[AndyN]

I'm happy that you found someone who benefited from your suggestion.

I'd ask, based on the company description you gave, if you'd ever taken a look at their record retention period and asked them if they would bring up the topic of 'running out of space' at a Management Review, or whether anyone else had ever considered it as an improvement etc. Are you saying no-one in the company didn't also know what was going on?

It's my belief that this type of situation 'short circuits' the clients understanding of how to utilize their QMS.

Wouldn't it be better to enlighten them as to the use of the 'tools' in the QMS toolbox, that would help them to realize this kind of thing?

I prefer the old adage about "teaching a man to fish..."

 

[DrM2u]

Wouldn't it be better to enlighten them as to the use of the 'tools' in the QMS toolbox, that would help them to realize this kind of thing?

I prefer the old adage about "teaching a man to fish..."

AS an auditor I couldn't do much teaching without risking to cross the fine line of the consulting border. I did however try to give them a picture of "the forest if they could not see it for the trees".

 

[AndyN]

AS an auditor I couldn't do much teaching without risking to cross the fine line of the consulting border. I did however try to give them a picture of "the forest if they could not see it for the trees".

I believe it's the other way around, actually! By simply 'telling them' to consider electronic records is consulting! By easing them through the process of using the quality management system as a tool to identify process improvements, resources, changes etc IS value added auditing...

 

[brahmaiah]

We have customer supplied gages.
7.5.4 states that we must identify customer property.
Will a calibration sticker be sufficient?
(We can determine customer by referencing gage# on calibration sticker in our gage management software)
Or, should we explicitly add additional identification such as "Property of [CustomerName]"?

Following information identifications will serve the requirement:
1.Customer name
2.Gauge unique identification no.
3.Calibration status

In addition a stock list of all customer supplied property is required.
Property returned back to customer should be accounted in the list.
Product purchased from customer does not fall into this category.

V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[Richard Pike]

We have customer supplied gages.
7.5.4 states that we must identify customer property.
Will a calibration sticker be sufficient?
(We can determine customer by referencing gage# on calibration sticker in our gage management software)
Or, should we explicitly add additional identification such as "Property of [CustomerName]"?

Have followed this thread with interest. The purpose of Customer ID is (a) to ensure product supplied gets used as it is supposed to. (b) to ensure it gets looked after whilst its in your care. In most cases this means simply - treat the Customer Property as you would if it were your own. So in your case the Customer has supplied gauging because they want you to use it and look after it as gauging should be looked after. So the question is .. do you have a process to ensure the gauge is used as and when it should be and is looked after when it is not being used. And of course, have you evaluated that process to ensure it is effective? In the absence of any specific Customer requirement, that will suffice. PS I always avoid any labels on gauges like I would avoid the plague - ISO 9001 2008 made specific reference that "labels" were NOT required - just traceable.

 

[JaneB]

We have customer supplied gages.
7.5.4 states that we must identify customer property.
Will a calibration sticker be sufficient?
(We can determine customer by referencing gage# on calibration sticker in our gage management software)
Or, should we explicitly add additional identification such as "Property of [CustomerName]"?

As you'll have gathered, different people have provided different recommendations.

If you can determine the customer from the gage # on the calibration sticker, I cannot see that you would need anything more, unless you decide it would be valuable or necessary.

And going to the effort of putting redundant information on for no benefit, or creating new things, like a 'stock list of all supplied customer property'? Don't bother. I'm sure you have better things to spend time on.

 

[JaneB]

In addition a stock list of all customer supplied property is required.

No. It isn't. No such thing mentioned in ISO 9001.

 

[Big Jim]

Have followed this thread with interest. The purpose of Customer ID is (a) to ensure product supplied gets used as it is supposed to. (b) to ensure it gets looked after whilst its in your care. In most cases this means simply - treat the Customer Property as you would if it were your own. So in your case the Customer has supplied gauging because they want you to use it and look after it as gauging should be looked after. So the question is .. do you have a process to ensure the gauge is used as and when it should be and is looked after when it is not being used. And of course, have you evaluated that process to ensure it is effective? In the absence of any specific Customer requirement, that will suffice. PS I always avoid any labels on gauges like I would avoid the plague - ISO 9001 2008 made specific reference that "labels" were NOT required - just traceable.

Can you please explain "ISO 9001:2008 made specific reference that 'labels' were NOT required - just traceable"?

 

[Richard Pike]

Can you please explain "ISO 9001:2008 made specific reference that 'labels' were NOT required - just traceable"?

My apologies! This is a note in ISO TS 16949 (2009)

7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring equipment

c) have identification in order to determine its calibration status;

TS NOTE A number or other identifier traceable to the device calibration record meets the intent of requirement c) above.

I would however suggest that as it is an (explanatory) note it would serve as explanation / justification of the gauge not being LABELED.

 

[Stijloor]

Friends,

Let me set the record straight.....

The OP's question was about 7.5.4 in ISO 9001.

OK.

Now, because some of you brought in ISO/TS 16949...

Here is what is says...

7.5.4.1 Customer-owned production tooling
Customer-owned tools, manufacturing, test, inspection tooling and equipment shall be permanently marked so that the ownership of each item is visible, and can be determined.

A much better requirements if you ask me.

But let's get back to ISO 9001, shall we?

Stijloor.