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Customer Property Identification Requirement - ISO 9001 Clause 7.5.4

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#61
Yep- you are correct with regard to ISO 17021 -Sorry thought we were referring to ISO 9001.
ISO/IEC 17021:2006(E) spells out the requirements for Certification Bodies/Registrars. They must comply with these requirements. ISO 9001 does not address Stage 1 and Stage 2 at all.

Stijloor.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
R

Richard Pike

#63
ISO/IEC 17021:2006(E) spells out the requirements for Certification Bodies/Registrars. They must comply with these requirements. ISO 9001 does not address Stage 1 and Stage 2 at all.

Stijloor.
I don't really understand the point being made, however I am not going to labour semantics - I am to new here and bow to your experience with answering questions in this forum. :truce:
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#64
I don't really understand the point being made, however I am not going to labour semantics - I am to new here and bow to your experience with answering questions in this forum. :truce:
Not really semantics, just a detailed clarification supported with quotes from the Standard. Posts are also read by other Cove Members and it will help them to understand where the information came from. My experience answering questions is limited to what I know, experienced, and gathered from other sources. Everybody contributes and shares; everybody wins. A great concept set up here by Marc Smith (the Owner and our Host) 14 years ago.

Thanks for being here and helping out too!! :agree:

Stijloor.
 
J

JaneB

#65
I don't really understand the point being made, however I am not going to labour semantics
Semantics is the study of meaning, and there's certainly often discussions of meaning when it comes to particular clauses, wording and terms. But here, it's not at all a matter of semantics, but of being accurate.

The 2 key points:
1. The terms 'Stage 1 Audit' and 'Documentation Audit' are not synonymous. A Stage 1 Audit is the correct term.
As pointed out by others, a Stage 1 Audit involves more than simply auditing documentation. (If that's all it was, it could presumably be done offsite without having to go near the client site - I have seen the results of such a thing done like that on a few occasions and the results were neither pretty nor valuable).

2. The requirements for the certification process, including requirements for Stage 1 and Stage 2 Audits, are defined in ISO/IEC 17021:2006(E), which must be followed by Certification Bodies/Registrars.

If this sounds overly detailed, my apologies, but we're a quality forum. And we like to get things right and be accurate, when accuracy is required. When referring to exactly what's in which Standard, it is.:yes:

:topic:
I cannot recall a thread which quite so frequently went offtopic as this one... wonder why? Perhaps it has something to do with what's often called the silly season? ;)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#67
In my opinion - i reiterate - keeping tabs of property (anybodys) is just sensible business.
Yes, I thoroughly agree with you, it is. In my experience and opinion, that's pretty much what ISO 9001 requirements are throughout - sensible.:yes:
If keeping tabs on customer property is just sensible business (and I agree that it is), and ISO 9001 requirements are sensible throughout, why is it necessary to have a requirement to keep tabs on customer property? Why would we have a situation where, in opposition to sensible business practices, we question whether we need to inform a customer of things they have told us not to inform them of?
 
R

Richard Pike

#68
If keeping tabs on customer property is just sensible business (and I agree that it is), and ISO 9001 requirements are sensible throughout, why is it necessary to have a requirement to keep tabs on customer property? Why would we have a situation where, in opposition to sensible business practices, we question whether we need to inform a customer of things they have told us not to inform them of?
I still cant fathom the customer that tells us not to inform them (ever) of when their property is lost (or whatever) We had the property for a reason - now we don't have it anymore -

ISO requirements are only sensible if applied in the right context to the situation.

As i said in an earlier post, even a minor stock loss would be reported on stock take / reconciliation - which would provide both a report to the customer and records thereof. Its already being done in the course of business - its not an EXTRA ISO requirement. If applied with business sense, nothing, is an extra ISO requirement.

Again without going over the top - Show me an organization that is making money - is sustainable - and has happy customers, and I will show you an organization who -may never have heard of ISO9001- but never the less comply with its requirements +95%.

The concept is not called "compliance" (or as i say -complacence), its called good business practice. Well that's my opinion anyway.
 
D

DrM2u

#69
(...)If applied with business sense, nothing, is an extra ISO requirement.
(...) The concept is not called "compliance" (or as i say -complacence), its called good business practice. Well that's my opinion anyway.
:bonk:Ouch! You've hit the nail in the head! :applause::thanx:
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#70
If keeping tabs on customer property is just sensible business (and I agree that it is), and ISO 9001 requirements are sensible throughout, why is it necessary to have a requirement to keep tabs on customer property? Why would we have a situation where, in opposition to sensible business practices, we question whether we need to inform a customer of things they have told us not to inform them of?
Aah, now Jim!

You and I both know that what is documented in ISO (and customer orders and specifications) is not just what needs to be there but also what has to be there to stop people saying: 'But it doesn't say that!' :lol:
 
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