Customer Request for Corrective Action - Responsibility

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#1
AS9100 Rev. C 8.5.2 Corrective Action: A documented procedures shall be established... b) determining the cause of nonconformities, and g) flowing down corrective action requirements to a supplier when it is determined that the supplier is responsible...

I have seen a trend where the customer sends out a SCAR (often with incomplete or erroneous information), and during the process of root cause analysis, I find the root cause to be the customer's fault.

Example: Customer orders a part with the part designation 'XX' on their PO (no Revision). 'XX' only exists on rev. A, for on rev. B they obsoleted that configuration. Our acknowledgement states order for Rev. A.

Customer receives the part and inspects to Rev. B. Finds the shipment nonconforming. Sends a SCAR before doing any sort of internal investigation.

I read the requirements of AS9100 (or at least the intent), as the NCR originating party must b) determine the cause, THEN g) IF the supplier is part of the root cause, SCAR the supplier.

The trend seems to be to send the SCAR first. I have often determined the root cause to be a customer error, then have to fight to get the NCR voided (and our supplier rating revised).

It would be really nice if the CB's out there would recognize and correct this behavior!

To add to this, again I mentioned the SCAR's with incomplete information. I notice that once we send our product out to the Aerospace world (distributors and primes), lot containment is often lost. Again, CB's, look at the NCR reports being sent to the suppliers. If they do not have traceability information, please issue an NCR!

Too much time is being wasted chasing phantoms that should have been found by the complaining party!

I would love to hear some input on this.

Thanks,
Eric
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Corrective Action responsibility

It would be really nice if the CB's out there would recognize and correct this behavior!

I would love to hear some input on this.
Firstly, the "infringing" customer would have to be certified to a QMS standard and you would have to know who their CB is.

Secondly, you would have to provide the feedback to your customer's CB about the dysfunction at your customer. Now, doing that does not come risk free. Your customer might not appreciate the fact that you have complained to their CB about their QMS. So, tread carefully.

Thirdly, you have to realize that AS9100 expectations in terms of satisfaction typically flow downhill, from customers to suppliers. The ISO 9000 principle of mutually beneficial relationships does not exist in the ISO 9001 nor AS9100 standard.

Coming back to what YOU can do, can your order review process be more robust and flag the problem BEFORE the order is accepted, like the standard requires?
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: Corrective Action responsibility

Hi,

Wow, fast response.

Firstly, the "infringing" customer would have to be certified to a QMS standard
All parties described are AS9100 companies. I have no interest in tattling. This is a job the CB's need to do as part of being the 'process owner'. :)

Your customer might not appreciate the fact that you have complained to their CB about their QMS. So, tread carefully.
Tread not at all. I have not named my customer in this thread, nor will I. I guess I am interested in seeing if others have observed this phenomenon.

Thirdly, you have to realize that AS9100 expectations in terms of satisfaction typically flow downhill, from customers to suppliers.
During recent audits, we were written up for not being current on customer quality requirements (docs the customers provide, revision controlled). It was explained to me that it is our responsibility to 'seek' these requirements, and that 'flow down' wasn't a requirement that is enforced, more the "seek upstream", so not unlike your last comment:

Coming back to what YOU can do, can your order review process be more robust and flag the problem BEFORE the order is accepted, like the standard requires?
In the example I cited, our customer choose NOT to use revisions on their purchase orders (so, CB where is the write up on "Configuration Management"?), and then accepted our acknowledgement WITH the revision OTHER than what they claimed they wanted AFTER order completion. Not sure what I can do with my process to make it more robust....

[JOKE]"This job would be easy if it were not for customers, suppliers, auditors, and co-workers."[/END JOKE]
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
hogheavenfarm Can a company refuse a Corrective Action Request from a Customer? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 22
H Customer Complaint leading to Corrective Action vs. Change Request Customer Complaints 20
M Issue CAR (corrective action request) TO our Customer? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20
A Customer's Web Based CAR (Corrective Action Request) Systems ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
S Corrective Action Request (CAR) to Customer - Has anyone done this? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 10
D IMDS for machining - Can my customer request a IMDS number for a part? APQP and PPAP 2
G Should the Quality Department originate a Request for Deviation to the Customer? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 3
B Should I Request/Submit a PPAP from/to a Supplier/Customer for only Repackaging Parts APQP and PPAP 7
Moncia Recalculating RPN (FMEA Risk Priority Number) - Customer Request APQP and PPAP 10
W CE Mark for drone launcher military equipment at customer's request CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
Q How to handle customer request for changing specifications 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
GURU SDI Customer request VDA 6.3 as well as TS 16949 VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 30
M ECN Required for Customer Labeling Change Request? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
S Customer CAR request after waiting 4 years Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 7
V PPAP to Customer with Deviation Request APQP and PPAP 4
T Would one deny a Request for a Customer Audit ? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 21
W European Union Customer Request for ISO 13485 Compliance ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
M Reverse PFMEA also known as "Go and See" PFMEA - Customer Request FMEA and Control Plans 27
H Customer Requirements and Request for all Process Details and Documents APQP and PPAP 8
Casana Supplier Waiver Request - TS16949 Clause 8.3.4 Customer Waiver IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
I AS9102 lapse in production requirements - Customer FAI request AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
M How can I say no to a customer PPAP request APQP and PPAP 14
5 PPAP Request from our Customer for an Assembly we Purchase APQP and PPAP 9
M PPAP vs. Annual layout confusion - Customer "emergency PPAP" request APQP and PPAP 14
M PPAP - who me? Convincing a customer to NOT request PPAP APQP and PPAP 14
P Unreasonable FMEA request? Customer requests additional Steps in our FMEA FMEA and Control Plans 5
CarolX NAFTA Certificate of Origin - Sheet metal job shop - Customer Request Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3
M Customer Requirements - Request customer change their drawing to match the dimension ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 20
M We have to have a written request from an automotive customer requiring us to certify IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
briteme4 Customer Requests FAI on Tooling Fixture AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
D Suggestions for Ishikawa for hyperdetailed customer - plastic molding automotive parts Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
J WAIVED ON Q1 - We Don't have to comply with FORDS customer specific requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
A Customer Approval (Medical Devices) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
M Reduce occurrence rating based on the PMS data and customer complaint data ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 2
M IATF16949 Clause 9.1.2.1e - Customer notification related IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
G Too many customer complaints Customer Complaints 16
lanley liao Does the customer`s trademark belong to customer-supplied property? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 2
J Customer Complaint & SCAR, false data Nonconformance and Corrective Action 14
S Annual Inspection Layout - Based on Customer print ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
G Risk of stopping your customer's line IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S Calibration/Verification of customer fixtures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D CB and customer audits considered as internal audits? General Auditing Discussions 9
O Informational Ford Motor Company Customer Specific Requirements for IATF 16949:2016 - 08 Jan 2021 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
G Bad Parts cause Customer line stop IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
O IATF 16949 News Ford Motors Customer Specific Requirements Update - Nov 2020 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D Question regarding customer feedback process ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
D Change Approval Requirements - Does every change need formal customer approval? Design and Development of Products and Processes 17
B Retention Samples when Customer Leaves Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
M Email Template that go to a customer and then get returned to us for RMA/Warranty Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
B FCA US Customer Specific IATF 16949- Critical Characteristics 8.6.2 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom