Customer Requirement for Certificate of Conformance (CoC)

[Ninja]

Re: Requirement Of Certificate of Conformance (CoC)

Certificate of Analysis is an important part of the documentation.

Probably what you meant...but just putting a finer point on it...

"Analysis" is an important part of confirming that the product meets mutually agreed specs.

"Certificate" is a useless piece of dead tree.

As others have stated above...it is simply a record of why you trust your supplier (assuming you do). Don't believe everything you read...CoA or otherwise.
If my product is good, I know it because I analyzed it.
Reporting said analysis costs money.
Reporting it is either built into the price, or there is a separate charge to cover the cost.

 

[harley123]

Re: Requirement Of Certificate of Conformance (CoC)

Thanks for all your comments. You have all been very helpful!!!

 

[ousgg]

Re: Requirement Of COC

Biggest non-value exercise around. A complete waste. No wonder some places charge for it. Tax on stupidity.

Wow.

I am really surprised to see this in a quality forum of all places.

A C-of-C is a documented statement of conformity to requirements. In terms of the legal reality of how a company does business, it is second only to the purchase order.

How do you address supplied nonconforming product without a C-of-C?

 

[howste]

Re: Requirement Of COC

Wow.

I am really surprised to see this in a quality forum of all places.

A C-of-C is a documented statement of conformity to requirements. In terms of the legal reality of how a company does business, it is second only to the purchase order.

How do you address supplied nonconforming product without a C-of-C?

The PO states the requirements. The C of C states that they met the requirements. Does that mean if the supplier doesn't send a C of C you expect them to have shipped nonconforming product? :mg:

Suppliers are supposed to ship conforming product every time regardless of any statement of conformity. If the supplier ships bad product with or without a C of C then it gets rejected as it violates the legally binding contract.

I'd be interested to see if there is a statistically significant difference in conforming product between shipments with a C of C and those without. I personally wouldn't expect to see any difference.

 

[ousgg]

Re: Requirement Of COC

The PO states the requirements. The C of C states that they met the requirements. Does that mean if the supplier doesn't send a C of C you expect them to have shipped nonconforming product? :mg:

Suppliers are supposed to ship conforming product every time regardless of any statement of conformity. If the supplier ships bad product with or without a C of C then it gets rejected as it violates the legally binding contract.

I'd be interested to see if there is a statistically significant difference in conforming product between shipments with a C of C and those without. I personally wouldn't expect to see any difference.

This is over-simplistic in my view. If I design a B8256 widget and a set of process controls for it, and I PPAP this widget to ensure a supplier's capacity and capability to follow those controls, then I expect the supplier to certify that they have acted in conformance with those process controls, even if I know 75% of them are unnecessary. Cs-of-A and material certs, as mentioned above, probably contain plenty of data that is unnecessary for product performance, and we all know there can be 'hidden' defects in goods which are not easily apparent on incoming inspection.

The C-of-C is a supplier's only way of demonstrating accountability that process controls and other non-manifest requirements (NDT?) have been followed.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Requirement Of COC

The C-of-C is a supplier's only way of demonstrating accountability that process controls and other non-manifest requirements (NDT?) have been followed.

In my experience, the vast majority of CoC's are meaningless documents issued and signed by an admin clerk, who, typically has no clue of what they are signing. The reality is: CoC's, many times, are a legacy bureaucracy that adds very little value and it gives customers a false sense of security.

If you want your supplier to be accountable for the products they ship, make sure you are doing business with suppliers that have integrity, perform a thorough assessment of the supplier's capabilities and have a mutually beneficial relationship with that supplier.

The CoC paper or electronic equivalent can only be relied upon, if and when you did your homework in selecting and developing that supplier.

 

[Golfman25]

Re: Requirement Of COC

In my experience, the vast majority of CoC's are meaningless documents issued and signed by an admin clerk, who, typically has no clue of what they are signing. The reality is: CoC's, many times, are a legacy bureaucracy that adds very little value and it gives customers a false sense of security.

If you want your supplier to be accountable for the products they ship, make sure you are doing business with suppliers that have integrity, perform a thorough assessment of the supplier's capabilities and have a mutually beneficial relationship with that supplier.

The CoC paper or electronic equivalent can only be relied upon, if and when you did your homework in selecting and developing that supplier.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4

 

[Ninja]

Re: Requirement Of COC

How do you address supplied nonconforming product without a C-of-C?

Same way I address supplied nonconforming product WITH a C-of-C.
The Certificate didn't help...

 

[pkost]

Re: Requirement Of COC

For me CoC is evidence that the final inspections have been completed and that the item is released; I would like the certificate to indicate those specific values measured and pass/fail criteria

I aim to work with suppliers where it isn't really necessary, however it isn't always possible and for those occasions where this go wrong it gives me something to nail them to a post with. It also gives me less of a regulatory headache when an inspector asks me to prove that I got what i asked for.

A CoC has a place, it can be a waste of paper, or it can be extremely useful. It ultimately depends how you use it and how much risk you are willing to take as a business.

 

[Eredhel]

Re: Requirement Of Certificate of Conformance (CoC)

CoCs feel more like legal liability to me than anything. All the real documentation I do happens elsewhere.