Customer Satisfaction - Whose responsibility? Sales Manager?

[Alienyst]

Not a new idea, but new to ISO, Customer Satisfaction seems to be the 'big ticket' item for my assessor. When I first developed the documentation for the new version, I met with the Sales Manager who felt, as I did, that it should be his responsibility. So I set up a system with him and programmed it on his computer. This was in March of 2002. In March 2003 we had our reassessment to the new standard. Passed but took a deviation on Customer Satisfaction. The Sales Manager had not produced any customer satisfaction reports, could not explain how his system worked, could not explain any benefits from it. Internal audits had identified this as a deficiency with no response to any internal CAR's and no action by management above me to try and rectify the situation.

Now, a year later, we get written up for the same thing - and worse, the Sales Manager lies to the auditor like he has been doing it all along even though the auditor knew already from reviewing records in my office, it not only had not been done, but the Sales Manager had not addressed any of the CAR's issued against it (two by me as a result of internal audit, one by a customer as a result of an audit, and one from the assessor).

The Sales Manager still refuses to perform this function and claims it should be a Quality function. I have no problem doing it and doing it effectively, but I do not have access to all the information I would need to do it properly. Only the Sales Manager does.

After the last assessment, I developed a new system and application that I could do properly and effectively with no input from the Sales Manager. It may not be as robust as some, but I played around with information for the last year to see how the projections and trends functions worked and all looks great. So I left the data from the last year in and updated it to reflect current data.

So, I guess what I am looking for is who handles and how do they handle Customer Satisfaction? Is it a Sales function? Quality function? Is it a popular topic with your assessor?

 

[DannyK]

It seems like the Sales Manager does not want to do his job.

I think the best way to go about solving the problem is to hand it to top management who should decide if it is his responsibility or not.

Also as part of the corrective action, you should verify the situation on a monthly basis.

Danny

 

[Al Dyer]

Sounds like limited management involvement or follow-through. You can only do so much to "make" others perform their assigned functions and it sounds like you have done your part. I suggest you keep lots of records (cover :ca: ). This is a common situation and I would like to read some more detail on your companies management review process.


Al...

 

[The Taz!]

To start with. . . it is Management Responsibility to setup the QMS to monitor customer satisfaction. The Sales Manager has been remiss. . . he should be collecting the data through his conduits, filtering it, and reporting at Management Reviews.

As Bill Gates said, "Life ain't fair. . .get used to it."

The Sales Manager and production planning personnel seem to think they are "above it all." I have never worked with a Sales Manager who was the least interested in what happened inside the factory walls unless a special order of their's was late. This is a generality of course, but generally factual.

As to the not answered CAR's, did the assessor write Top Management up for not exercising his (or her), RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the integrity of the QMS??. . .and make sure that "when planned arrangements" are not met (Closing CAR's according to procedure), that a CAR was issued to the offending Manager?? Was a CAR issued for not addressing the "Nonconformity without undue delay?"

I don't know the structure oif your company, but it is evident from your post that Top Management is lax in their ultimate responsibility.

Just keep documenting. . .and issuing the CAR's. . .it may cost you your standing in the company, but it may cost the company their certificate. . . something no registrar has a vested interest in doing. . .especially after they certified you.

Have some Jack Daniels and sleep sound. . . you are responsible for what YOU do or don't do. . . not for others.

I'm venting a bit. . .but I have little tolerance for those who will not take their responsibilities seriously.

 

[Alienyst]

One of the biggest problems I have is the management above me. There are two - GM and Owner. I have written CAR's to address their lack of response, etc. but it seems secondary to all else. Makes me wonder sometimes.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

You seem to have a knack for starting interesting threads... Anyway, the advice already given here is good.

One of the biggest problems I have is the management above me. There are two - GM and Owner. I have written CAR's to address their lack of response, etc. but it seems secondary to all else. Makes me wonder sometimes.

The most important thing is that you keep documenting all this. Sooner or later the smelly styff will hit the fan, and that documentation may prove essential for your personal wellbeing.

I would like to suggest the following threads.... Similar discussions:

Management commitment - Lipservice - Delegation
How do you say sabotage?
Changing the Culture of an organisation where quality is a dirty word

We also need to look over our own efforts: How can we spread the gospel better? Maybe we should learn from marketing? They know about PR, and that is something we quality geeks are notoriously poor at. We may be right, but that will not sell our "product".

/Claes

 

[RoxaneB]

Alienyst, first off, a belated welcome to the Cove. Secondly, when is your next Management Review? If it's not for a while, would it be possible for you to call something like a Progress Report Meeting on the Health of the QMS?

I'd suggest you develop an agenda that meets the requirements the Standard and, for those, items regarding changes or recommendations, here's the time to introduce the concerns regarding the function of the Sales Manager, Customer Satisfaction, and Management Committment.

Invite your Top Management and anyone else you feel would benefit from such a meeting (it could serve as a great tool for communiction *hint**hint* so maybe some supervisors?)...don't forget to invite Mr. Sales Manager. Provide a copy of the agenda well in advance so no one feels like their blindsided in the meeting. You're stating your case (aka concerns)...they should have equal opportunity to plan their defense.

I would also suggest you start off your presentation with this question...."Why do we have/want ISO 9001?" Start the presentation. Have the discussions and debates. In the end, finish off with the same question. If there is no value, going for the piece of the paper may not be worth the headache....good point, you can start to sleep at night again...bad point, you may be out of a job.

 

[Craig H.]

This might be a little off topic, but doesn't a situation like this warrant a major nonconformance from the 3rd party auditor, at the least? It seems to me that this is a major breakdown, both from the satisfaction standpoint and the unanswered CARs, especially after the second occurrance. Being lied to would have provoked a response from anyone, auditor or not, I would think.

I am interested to see how the expert auditors among us would react. Please share your views.

Craig

 

[Alienyst]

The first time it was a minor which he closed, more as a favor to me, in October when the GM assured him the situation was being taken care of. If he had left it open, it would have been a major this time.

As for the internal CAR's - this is the topic of a meeting next week with GM, Sales, Production Mgr. and a few others...but mainly this is for Sales benefit.

The auditor was not pleased with being lied to, but as any good auditor would, all he did was make the rope available. Sales mgr. hung himself from the highest limb as far as I am concerned.

 

[Craig H.]

Alienyst:

No, you haven't missed anything. I figured that a major NC from a 3rd party auditor, with the requisite suspension and subsequent followup audit, often will serve as a wake up call for upper management.

The unfortunate thing is that if upper management is just looking for the certificate (I don't know anything about your situation other than what you stated), then a major might be more your problem than the Sales Manager's.

There is a thread here about ISO 9000 being a tool or a weapon. In this case the threat of a major might be just the weap... er, tool (of last resort, of course) needed to prod those slow on the uptake. At one of the meetings, reference to your registrar's major nonconformance procedure, and the costs of same, might be just the tonic...

Mean and nasty? Yep, but why should you shoulder the burden?

Craig