Customer Specific Requirements (CSR) not signed/approved

sistoiv

Involved In Discussions
#1
Good mornining
I had a discussion with the CAB's auditor (only point of view and chatter).
Topic: customer requirement but first of all CSR not signed/approved by suppplier.
The owner of the company (buyer or quality manager aren't the boss...) does not approve some CSRs and indeed many of the company's suppliers do not want to sign our CSRs. The auditor says it is not good.
We have discussed but in the face of the evidence he has given up: these are contractual issues between the parties, it is not law, there are no obligations to sign the CSRs. Obviously, then a customer may decide to reject a supplier (if it can).
I told him "too easy attaching a PDF file in an mail, sending it and thinking that's all, free of charge": it's necessary to meet, deal with and costing. A company can decide do not sign a customer requirement/CSR legitimately.
What do you think?
 
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Johnny Quality

Involved In Discussions
#2
I've only had one customer requesting to sign and approve CSR's. Though this is the only customer who's CSR's have a sign and return section, the rest of my automotive customers don't have section to sign and date; it's just a list of requirements.

I'd ask the auditor what clause you are at risk of not conforming to by not signing CSR's.
 

sistoiv

Involved In Discussions
#3
I'd ask the auditor what clause you are at risk of not conforming to by not signing CSR's.
No clause,obviously.
Ok, but "a list of requirements" have to be approved by the other contractual part: otherwise it remains a theoretical list.
It's contract issue: corporate law has rules. Business lawyers say rightly that CSR document it's worth nothing if it's not formally and explicitly accepted. It seems that some quality manager or buyer ignore it.
 
Last edited:

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#4
In contract between supplier and customer, existence of CSR should be referenced.
Supplier obligations in this matter should be defined.
Sometimes sign off is needed, sometimes not, because contract agreement is enough to execute supplier obligations to follow customer requirement.

Please read 4.3.2. Your evaluation was "we don't agree with this and this". Ok.
Next, please read 5.1.2. How does your top management ensured, that customer requirements are consistently met?
If evaluation was partially negative, so complete customer requirements were not met, as required.
Finding related evidence is auditor's job, internal and external.
Next, please read 6.1.1 and 6.1.2. What have you done with these portions of customer requirements you didn't like?
Nothing? No risk identified?
No risk, but auditor asked. What if customer would ask?

Contract is the law, but even if CSR were not there, still there is a lot of sections auditor can reference as base for issuing NC.
Please consider it.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#5
jumping in here part way down stream of this...when you/your firm received the CSR, and noticed its was not executed or issued did you confront the owner of the CSR? Absent an executed or signed CSR....contact your point of contact and ...state, "we are in receipt of CSR dtd XX/XX/XX, unsigned, unles instructed otherwise we will proceed with the same as the issued/offical/executed CSR....", force the issue with the CSR originator....hope this helps...
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Let's clarify something here. Customer-Specific Requirements are OEM supplements to 16949. Actual CSRs may be found on the IATF website. Agreements between customers and suppliers are not Customer-Specific Requirements, technically.

At the RFQ/contract review stage, everything is negotiable. Once an agreement has been reached and a contract has been signed, both parties are bound by its requirements, and additional requirements can't be added without amendment of the original agreement.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#7
hmmm, Jim that may be valid, yet if I am a supplier and receive an unreleased, unoffical, etc document, this sets off alarms bells in my mind at least. I may have misinterpreted the above contractual relationship..
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
hmmm, Jim that may be valid, yet if I am a supplier and receive an unreleased, unoffical, etc document, this sets off alarms bells in my mind at least. I may have misinterpreted the above contractual relationship..
That was my point. New requirements (after the initial agreement) aren't "requirements" until both parties agree.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#9
In the real world, contract terms are for the lawyers. I ain't signing squat, especially some document titled "customer specific requirements." When you've been around as long as I have you figure out that CSRs change too frequently and half the time your "customer" (the people you deal with) have no clue about them. Most people are reasonable and can work thru any issues to meet a customer's actual needs.

With that said, the standard probably requires CSRs to be reviewed, implemented, and trained on where applicable. The one we see most are specific PPAP requirements, forms and whatnot.
 
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