Customer wants a PPAP/PSW on some Prototype Parts

niotusen

Registered Visitor
#1
Hi we have a customer thats wants us to make a PPAP/PSW documentation to some prototype parts they have already ordered from us??

We are not TS/QS certified only ISO9001/14000 and we are a company that only makes prototypes.

How shall we handle this?

- My guess is we cant make PPAP/PSW to theese parts? They are sold as prototypes?

Are they putting theese parts into their processes?

Can they do that?

Thanks!
 
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Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Hi we have a customer thats wants us to make a PPAP/PSW documentation to some prototype parts they have already ordered from us??

We are not TS/QS certified only ISO9001/14000 and we are a company that only makes prototypes.

How shall we handle this?

- My guess is we cant make PPAP/PSW to theese parts? They are sold as prototypes?

Are they putting theese parts into their processes?

Can they do that?

Thanks!
I guess it would all depend upon what you agreed to at the time of the order? They certainly can ask for ppap documentation and you can certainly say ok or forget it.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#3
From a certain point of view...everything is "a process"...even the design control process (Product Development).

While it doesn't make much sense to PPAP a prototype (especially the "run at rate" item if nothing else)...they can still ask for it...it is a box to check after all...

My suggestion: talk to them.
Why do they want it?
Are they willing to pay for it?
What is the perceived value of doing it?
...or is it a new guy who thought every part needed one regardless?
 

ncwalker

Trusted Information Resource
#4
You cannot PPAP a prototype part. PPAP stands for PRODUCTION Part Approval Process. And in truth, it doesn't really approve the parts, but the process that made them.

What your customer really wants is some details on the process you used to make the prototypes. What details?

1) Probably layouts - so that if something goes awry in testing, he can investigate it. (If say the final assembly breaks catastrophically, you aren't going to be able to measure the broken components with any certainty as to what they were before they broke).

2) Probably material data - what's it made out of? Grain structure? Composite fiber lay? Etc.

3) Some idea of what you actually did when you made in - in the event that when the PRODUCTION process comes on line, you can compare this process to what YOU did to see if there is any cause to possible issues.

Honestly, he's being lazy and saying "Just PPAP it ..." instead of laying out what he wants.

My recommendation would be go to them and say:

"I can't really PPAP this because it's not a PRODUCTION process. But I understand there are elements of a PPAP you want for possible diagnostics. Which elements do you want?"

There's a lot of stuff in a PPAP that is VERY important for a production process, not so much for a prototype....
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
What I'd possibly do is look at the parts of a PPAP that could be of interest to your customer. Complete them and send off to the customer. He/she can review and ask for more information or indeed delete the parts not needed.

Some of our customers provide a checklist of what parts of the PPAP they want. Assuming you complete the PPAP as an electronic file you could include a checklist of PPAP elements and put N/A on elements of no relevance to make it clear.

Of course the proactive thing to do is be up front with the customer contact. Ask what elements of a PPAP he/she needs and negotiate over what is really applicable. Explain your viewpoint over what isn't relevant. That's about your relationship with your customer. We're not the best at that and tend to send off what we believe to be required then complete any extras they ask for later on. We're not TS certified and not very big so larger customers give us appropriate latitude.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
You cannot PPAP a prototype part. PPAP stands for PRODUCTION Part Approval Process. And in truth, it doesn't really approve the parts, but the process that made them.

What your customer really wants is some details on the process you used to make the prototypes. What details?

1) Probably layouts - so that if something goes awry in testing, he can investigate it. (If say the final assembly breaks catastrophically, you aren't going to be able to measure the broken components with any certainty as to what they were before they broke).

2) Probably material data - what's it made out of? Grain structure? Composite fiber lay? Etc.

3) Some idea of what you actually did when you made in - in the event that when the PRODUCTION process comes on line, you can compare this process to what YOU did to see if there is any cause to possible issues.

Honestly, he's being lazy and saying "Just PPAP it ..." instead of laying out what he wants.

My recommendation would be go to them and say:

"I can't really PPAP this because it's not a PRODUCTION process. But I understand there are elements of a PPAP you want for possible diagnostics. Which elements do you want?"

There's a lot of stuff in a PPAP that is VERY important for a production process, not so much for a prototype....
Maybe it's Prototype Part Approval Process? :)

But I agree, many people these days are lazy and say "PPAP" without putting any thought into what they actually need.
 

niotusen

Registered Visitor
#7
Thanks all, We have been in talk with customer and we will make some measurements and materialspecifications....we will have a meeting later and sort things out =)
Thanks!
 
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