Customers own most of our tooling - Is this Customer Provided Equipment?

M

mshell

#1
Thanks to all of the contributors for the information in the forum. The various ideas and topics discussed have been instrumental is helping to develop the QMS at our organization.

Now I need some input.

We are a small Injection Molding and Thermoforming company and I have just discovered that customers own most of our tooling (molds, vaccum boxes, cameras, etc.). Past QA employees classified the cameras as customer provided equipment however, due to the fact that we have the tooling manufactured, they did not classify it as customer provided. If I am understanding the Standard, this tooling must be classified as Customer Provided Equipment. Please offer your views on this issue.

Thanks,

Mshell :bigwave:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
D

David Hartman

#2
mshell said:
Thanks to all of the contributors for the information in the forum. The various ideas and topics discussed have been instrumental is helping to develop the QMS at our organization.

Now I need some input.

We are a small Injection Molding and Thermoforming company and I have just discovered that customers own most of our tooling (molds, vaccum boxes, cameras, etc.). Past QA employees classified the cameras as customer provided equipment however, due to the fact that we have the tooling manufactured, they did not classify it as customer provided. If I am understanding the Standard, this tooling must be classified as Customer Provided Equipment. Please offer your views on this issue.

Thanks,

Mshell :bigwave:
First, Welcome to the Cove.

Now to address your post. At a previous employer's (government radios/electronics) we often requested suppliers develop special test fixturing for components or modules to be supplied by the supplier, molds for supplier provided castings, etc. These fixtures, molds, etc. were then to be considered as our (customer) equipment, and were to be properly identified and handled as such.

If fact, we performed an annual review/audit to ensure that the equipments were being properly maintained and accounted for.

For us some of these equipments were in fact considered as "government tooling/fixtures" just because they were being created/maintained in support of a government contract, which added a whole different layer of control requirements.

I don't know if I have directly answered your question or not, but I guess to sum up where I was headed: I would suggest that this equipments could be considered as customer property, but I would recommend reviewing your contract/purchase order with the customer to get a better understanding of the customer's requirements (in fact you may what to contact your customer, just to be on the safe side). ;)
 
#3
mshell said:
If I am understanding the Standard, this tooling must be classified as Customer Provided Equipment. Please offer your views on this issue.

Thanks,

Mshell :bigwave:
I totally agree: The tooling must be considered as Customer Provided.

/Claes
 
M

mshell

#4
ddhartma,

Your response has raised yet another question. Some of our customers have suppliers that manufacture components that become part of our completed product. My organization pays the supplier but the customer control supplier selection. Would this also need to be classified as customer provided equipment?

Thanks,

Mshell :)
 
D

David Hartman

#5
mshell said:
ddhartma,

Your response has raised yet another question. Some of our customers have suppliers that manufacture components that become part of our completed product. My organization pays the supplier but the customer control supplier selection. Would this also need to be classified as customer provided equipment?

Thanks,

Mshell :)
In MHO no. Since your company pays for these supplies, they are yours. In-fact the supplier themselves should be added to your "approved" supplier list (although you could note their approval as being based on customer selection, and even limit their use to supplies for that specific customer if you wanted to/felt the need to go that far).
 
J

Jimmy Olson

#6
mshell said:
ddhartma,

Your response has raised yet another question. Some of our customers have suppliers that manufacture components that become part of our completed product. My organization pays the supplier but the customer control supplier selection. Would this also need to be classified as customer provided equipment?

Thanks,

Mshell :)
We deal with the same issue here. Our customers specify the parts and suppliers that they want us to use, but we do all the ordering, purchasing, and storage and therefore classify the parts as our property. Occasionaly we do get parts that are given to us by the customer and those parts are classified as customer property. Hope that helps
 
#8
We don't have customer supplied tooling. When the customer supplies components for use in manufacturing our products that is "customer supplied" . When they specify a vendor and part number and we do all the rest we treat that as any other component.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#9
I am currently working with an injection molding company that also builds tools which the customer pays for. They are considered customer property (7.5.4) and also need to be considered in 7.3 because even though they are not the "finished parts," the company designs, builds, and sells them to the customer.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
I agree with the thaumaturgist [magician or "wonder worker"] that 7.5, 7.3 and even 7.4 (Purchasing) all play a part in the matter of customer-owned or provided property.

In every company where I've been in charge of dictating the manner of compliance, I take the tack to treat all equipment, toolings, drawings, or components supplied or paid for (thereby creating the "owned" designation) in exactly the same manner as we treat our own.

Ergo, when a customer supplies components, they get the same treatment as if we were buying them from a third party - we investigate and approve the method of production and inspection or we conduct incoming inspection before they are accepted into our system.

Similarly for tooling (whether designed and built by us in-house or outsourced to our own supplier or delivered from our customer's warehouse), we inspect it and maintain it as if it were ours.

Think about customer-supplied machines and tooling in the same way as if you leased them from a finance company (with an obligation to return them in good repair or pay damages) or paid for them with your own company's cash.

So, the only difference in the way we deal with customer's tooling, drawings, machines, components versus our own is in the accounting department and perhaps the ownership label affixed to the item.

Here are sample paragraphs from our QManual:
7.5.4.1 Material incorporated into finished product

Our activities do not normally involve the use of customer supplied material, either by us to a supplier or by our customer to us or one of our subcontractors or other suppliers. When required by contract, we verify, store, and maintain material as required by our QMS procedures. If we damage or lose material, we notify the customer and take agreed actions.

7.5.4.1 Customer documents

We frequently take possession of customer documents (intellectual property), ranging from design drawings to specification lists. We treat all customer documents within our configuration management process. This means each document is positively identified as customer’s. Copies, access, and changes are strictly monitored and controlled. Agreement to handle documents in this manner is documented before accepting possession of customer documents. When documents no longer need be retained per contract or regulations, they are returned to customer or disposed of as agreed with customer.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Customers Request AS9100 certification - Small Company (less than 20 employees) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
J Which OEM or customers are now requiring the new AIAG/VDA FMEA format? FMEA and Control Plans 0
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D Do non-IATF customers need to be included in audit scope? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 23
NDesouza When Customers Make Changes to Orders Contract Review Process 24
T Was Just told we could ONLY buy material for AS9100 customers if the DISTRIBUTION house is AS9100 / AS9120 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
D Customer and Company Specific Requirements for notification of Customers of a change in Management or Key Personnel Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
S Returned product due to Customers fault, is it a Non-Conformance? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
Sidney Vianna Interesting Discussion ISO 9001 audits from the perspective of registrants' customers - an interesting paper Registrars and Notified Bodies 0
S How to collect complaint data from customers Customer Complaints 24
A CE Mark PPE Category III for our customers residing in the EU CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 1
Ed Panek Requirement to track and trend positive feedback from customers ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 12
R Medical Device (IVD) - Selling RUO to Customers EU Medical Device Regulations 2
T Restricting scope of AS9100 certification to a couple of customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
C What are rules to notify customers if IATF cert is put on hold? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
R Concessions - ISO 13485:2016 requires concession approval from customers Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
G AIAG FMEA - Major customers of the FMEA process FMEA and Control Plans 3
C Record retention for defunct customers? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
M Can a foreign manufacturer sell directly to US customers? Other US Medical Device Regulations 4
D AS9100D 7.3 Awareness of customers quality policies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 18
A Special Procedures for Non Aerospace Customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
R AS9100 FAI - First Article Inspection to a prior Customers PO AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
B TS16949 Section 8.2.2.3 Product Audit - Requirements for various Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
Crimpshrine13 IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
N Do you make exceptions to your process for customers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
D TS16949 requirements for for Directed Buy Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M Document Control Management - External documents flowed down from customers Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
K ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5.3 - Property belonging to customers or external providers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Does AS9120 (aerospace first article inspection) apply to all customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Dual Lot Manufacturing requirements for Clinical Customers Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
A SIPOC (Suppliers Inputs Process Outputs Customers) examples wanted Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 1
J Potential Customers Asking for EIRs / 483s when evaluating a CRO for future work US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 2
N Survey to Customers Regarding Our Complaint Response Time Customer Complaints 7
B Creation of CAD solid models using customers supplied drawings AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
S CS2 (Controlled Shipping Level) by GM - CB notified. What about other customers? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
E How do you monitor Medical Device Off-Label use by Customers & Medical Professionals EU Medical Device Regulations 5
C Notification to Customers regarding Major Audit Finding IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 25
C Clause 7.2 with no customers (yet) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
T IMDS - MDS request for parts supplied to multiple customers RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 15
T Are Customers required to follow a Manufacturers Maintenance Schedule? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
L PPAP Approval Woes - Getting signed PSW's back from Customers Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 15
R LinkedIn Customers Allege Company Hacked E-Mail Addresses After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 0
S Can we be both TS16949 for Automotive Customers and ISO 9001 for other Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
K ISO 9001 vs. ISO 13485 Registration - Approximately 1/3 of our customers are medical ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
G Supplier Quality Questionnaire - Asking who our customers are Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 10
Q Internal Laboratory Services - Selling Services to "Outside" Customers General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
S How to incorporate a customers special inspection frequency in our control plan FMEA and Control Plans 1
S Why do customers refuse to accept no-quotes? Manufacturing and Related Processes 25
J Do any of you send the whole CQI-9 System Assessment to your Customers? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
quality1 Charging Customers for REACH Documentation RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 8

Similar threads

Top Bottom