Data Collection Procedure for -70 Freezer (Defrosting)

K

KeithM

#1
Ok here we go with another.
Currently we have a department that has no PM program so the -70 freezers get a good thick build up of frost. I'm being told to have them empty the freezer before taking the "As Found" data. Then after it's defrosted and we do a "as Left" Calibration we find that the RTD Probe is reading over 3 degrees off from our Temp Standard. Our tolerance is +/- 1 degree C
So in effect we have changed the environment before the "As Found" and changed it even more by defrosting before the "As Calibrated". Of course only my boss says this is the correct way to do things. And that this calibration does not require an "Out of Calibration" report.

Does anyone agree with this? I haven't found but one person so far mentioned above. I'd love to here some replies.:mad:
 
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S

Sturmkind

#2
Depending on which specification is used, a time limit is normally applied of from 1-3 minutes at conditioned temperature during which the environment reading is verified and any further testing (like impact) is performed. If the freezers can be unloaded in such a time before taking the temperature reading, it is probably marginally significant. Otherwise, leave them loaded and take the reading directly since that would reflect closer to the temperature as experienced by the items within the freezer.

The frost buildup may be acting as a thermal 'insulator' from the optimum operation of the freezer, though, so a 3 degree difference may be 'real'.
 
K

KeithM

#3
Exactly!
That's why I suggested for them to make sure the probe is clear of ice and frost as part of their monthly PM. I'd like to see them explain this to the FDA when they come in.
 
G

George Weiss

#4
Cool heads get raises, and stay employed.
Your Freezer is expected to respond quickly to changes of the internal temperature.
The ice build-up is slowing this response time greatly.
If the Freezer was never opened, then this would not be an issue.
With a nice ice coating, 4-10 hours might be needed to achieve +/-1 deg.
I am sure someone might quickly indicate that de-icing PM was done, and then do a normal calibration afterwards.
Another person might do a corrective action.
A company minded person would collect the information, and give the responsible person(s) the options to take.
Most calibrations are performed after a device is normalized to a defined condition. I am sure the ice present would be removed, before a successful performance verification was to be attempted.
So was your freezer set for –15deg.C or 0deg.C.?
I am sure one would be more serious then the other.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#5
I guess I may be missing the point - are you calibrating the freezer or the sensor? Is the sensor removable, or built in? What is the temperature "standard" you are using - a calibrated second sensor?
 
J

Jason PCSwitches

#6
[FONT=&quot]How is the temperature monitored regularly? As bobdoering pointed out is there a sensor?

If your calibrating the freezer itself by taking readings how can you demonstrate controlled conditions are adhered to between calibration cycles.

What if the power goes of during the weekend and the freezer shuts down, thus making the temperature rise above the required conditions?

If you have product that is required to be temperature controlled, having a calibrated freezer IMHO is not enough. You need to have a system in place to monitor the conditions and have the ability to identify any changes that would affect the product it contains.[/FONT]
 
G

George Weiss

#7
An excellent point ! :applause:
Some form centralized of data-logger for your freezers would be great. There are wireless sensor terminals now. Monitor, and keep track of all your freezers from home. I mean your cubicle.:notme:
I am sure the cost would be a barrier.
This is a good time to point out how PM would be cheaper than a monitoring system to protect from no PM. :agree1:
 
K

KeithM

#8
The RTD is connected to the Building Management System and is recording the "official" temperature of the unit. Since it is recording the official temperature we calibrate them in place at their working temperature.

I fully realize I need to chill out. Not only are we wasting man hours for Facilities personell responding in the middle of the night for freezer alarms. It just gets frustrating dealing with the same issue over and over again when the simple solution is to get a PM plan in place. -70 freezers are built for long term cold storage and if the equipment owners take just a little time to learn about their equipment it's a win win for everyone involved. Cleaning a little at a time it should have never been allowed to build up 4 or 5 inches of ice all over the inside of the unit. Working in a FDA regulated company it's like pulling teeth not only to get people to follow existing procedures but to add a new procedure when needed. 7 managers in 4 years doesn't help either.

We use a Hart Thermometer for our standard.
 
Last edited:

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Just a curiosity - have you contacted the freezer company to see what their expertise suggests?
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#10
The facilities I call on that have -70 (and colder) freezers have monitors and alarms on them. They know exactly what the temperatures are all the time, and they are automatically logged. That is in addition to annual calibrations.
 
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