Dedicated (full time) vs. non-dedicated QMS Internal Auditors

T

Tom W

#11
There are two perspectives with this topic; one is management probably wants to cut costs and one way they see that is to eliminate full-time auditors and give their responsibilities to others already getting paid to be at work working, the other is top management not understanding what goes into auditing correctly and effectively.

Either way it's a up-hill battle to combat the forces of evil that most top management represent...:notme: Depending on the size of the organization a full time auditor or staff of auditors is warranted but during economic downturns everyone wants to cut costs and if they (top management) does not see benefit to the audit process to justify the costs then they will want to cut costs in that area. It's all about the math unfortunately; being blinded to the hidden numbers that failing systems and lack of effective controls can lead too.

Just my initial thoughts on this....feel free to kick me around if you think I am way off base...
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Just my initial thoughts on this....feel free to kick me around if you think I am way off base...
Well Tom. I'm pulling my boots on.........:lol:

All you say is good and true, however, if audits were done with results that could be shown to save money, then the cost issue may not actually be one after all.

One thing I've learned (since living in Michigan) is that audit management has to learn to speak the language of business, not ISO clauses! Also, I spent a lot of time listening (while driving around Detroit) to a clinical psychologist (Dr. Joy Brown, am 800) who basically says that if you have a problem with someone's behaviour, just telling them won't make them change - you have to change your behaviour!

So, audit management might bitterly complain that 'management don't understand', 'won't find the money for it' or similar, but chances are, no-one ever did anything with audits/auditing to be taken seriously!

Who really cares what 'ISO Says'? - we never hear it mentioned on the cable financial news networks, do we? Yet, many (in Quality) hold it as some kind of "Sword of Damocles" over management! Nothing could be further from the truth!

You won't get any support until you have a cause worth supporting - and you have to show that, from the front! O.K - get your marching boots on.........:lol:
 
T

Tom W

#13
Andy - you are correct; but if management actually paid attention to waht audits are and what they are used for they would support them with open arms. It's an organization with a good culture that has management understanding the audit process.

However, when it comes to cutting costs the best culture in the world will go sour. I equate it to the financial bottom line is the finish line of a long race, not the starting line, yet in times of low profits it becomes the starting line...it's backwards thinking...'we can't spend any money until we make some money'...meanwhile the system and support functions fall to he!! and people start loosing thier jobs because of poor performance.

Tripping over dollars to save nickles is the quickest way to go out of business; yet companies keep doing it. When I win the mega millions and open my own business I will be so smart from watching all of the idiots out there ruin their businesses....(I hope so anyway...now all I have to do is win the lotto and we will find out....boy it's going to be fun).:lmao:
 

julsbear

Involved In Discussions
#14
First, congratulations on even having dedicated auditors.

My experience is that non-dedicated auditors is practically like having no auditors unless they are well screened before being selected, well trained and that the management chain will support the time and energy auditors under their command will need to do a good audit.

You will also need the authority to review and disipline the auditors for inadequate audits. The auditor will also needtobe involved on follow-up.
 
D

Deb Lenard

#15
Thanks to all for your inputs. My management has decided on the non-dedicated approach for internal QMS audits. Will be an interesting upcoming year to launch this new direction.
 
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