"Defects" Visual Aid: To Control or To Not Control?

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#1
I have started creating visual aids for our shop that show a defect and have the description of the defect. These visual aids are for helping my shop declare the reason for the scrap...the part has already been deemed scrap and has been sitting in a scrap bin. At the end of a week, the workers go thru the bins and note on a scrap transfer sheet...the quantities, part #s, and the reason for returnig the parts to the foundry.

We decided to create pictorial visual aids - for a reference/on-the-job training of defects. There could be more picture examples of a scrap definition but these visual aids only show 1 possibility which best depicts the "scrap definition".

NOW, would you slap a control number on these visual aids or not? I'd rather not, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

EDIT: posted the scrap transfer sheet too...
Machine shop fills in the left side; the foundry fills in the right, then it comes back to me. This way, I can see what we thought the scrap reason was and the actual reason as noted by the foundry.
 

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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Visual Aid: To Control or To Not Control?

In my previous position, this was the stance we took when it came to job aids and one-point lessons...we did not control them. That being said, we kept track of when we used them, so that we could identify when we re-used them on a recurring problem/root cause combintation. At that point, the approaches include incorporating the information on the job aid or one-point lesson into the existing document for formal training to follow. This is, of course, working under the presumption the content of your job aids currently does not exist within your controlled documentation.

In some cases, I think we even linked the job aid into the controlled document as a supporting document but the job aid, itself, was not controlled...but you walk a fine line here should processes/information change.
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: Visual Aid: To Control or To Not Control?

I hate creating documents personally, but if the visual aid is referenced in any procedure or work instructions than it needs to be controlled.
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: Visual Aid: To Control or To Not Control?

I hate creating documents personally, but if the visual aid is referenced in any procedure or work instructions than it needs to be controlled.
These will not be referenced in any other document...yet. There is a possibility that I might create a work instruction for the process of itemizing/sorting scrap, which is being returned to the foundry. (We do not have one yet and it has never been an issue in the past.)

In my previous position, this was the stance we took when it came to job aids and one-point lessons...we did not control them. That being said, we kept track of when we used them, so that we could identify when we re-used them on a recurring problem/root cause combintation. At that point, the approaches include incorporating the information on the job aid or one-point lesson into the existing document for formal training to follow. This is, of course, working under the presumption the content of your job aids currently does not exist within your controlled documentation.

In some cases, I think we even linked the job aid into the controlled document as a supporting document but the job aid, itself, was not controlled...but you walk a fine line here should processes/information change.
These visual pictorial aids would only be located in 1 spot in the shop. They are going to be available to the workers just so that the pics can help the worker put down the right / closest reason on the transfer sheet.
They would not be any part of "training document" ever.



EDIT: I added another attachment in the 1st post - the scrap transfer sheet.
Machine shop fills in the left side; the foundry fills in the right, then it comes back to me. This way, I can see what we thought the scrap reason was and the actual reason as noted by the foundry.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
#5
This is a debatable topic and may raise nearly as many comments as should tape measures be calibrated.

Personally, I don't see where in the standard that work aids should get a pass on document control. The basic requirement from 4.2.3 is "Documents required by the quality management system shall be controlled." If it is use, that pretty much tells you that it has been determined to be necessary.

And the debate is likely to rage on.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Visual Aid: To Control or To Not Control?

These will not be referenced in any other document...yet. There is a possibility that I might create a work instruction for the process of itemizing/sorting scrap, which is being returned to the foundry. (We do not have one yet and it has never been an issue in the past.)



These visual pictorial aids would only be located in 1 spot in the shop. They are going to be available to the workers just so that the pics can help the worker put down the right / closest reason on the transfer sheet.
They would not be any part of "training document" ever.



EDIT: I added another attachment in the 1st post - the scrap transfer sheet.
Machine shop fills in the left side; the foundry fills in the right, then it comes back to me. This way, I can see what we thought the scrap reason was and the actual reason as noted by the foundry.
Best solution could be to put this pics inside controlled work instruction.
If stand alone I am guessing that they could be also subjected to be audited as "documents of external origin" and, based on clause 4.2.3 f), they shall be identified and their distribution controlled.
Looking at the picture, the question is tricky because I would also ask who decide to replace them in case of documentation updating.
Hope this helps:bigwave:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
There is time to control the visual aides; I do not see a rush to do so unless you have trouble with revision control or loss.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
I have started creating visual aids for our shop that show a defect and have the description of the defect. These visual aids are for helping my shop declare the reason for the scrap...the part has already been deemed scrap and has been sitting in a scrap bin. At the end of a week, the workers go thru the bins and note on a scrap transfer sheet...the quantities, part #s, and the reason for returnig the parts to the foundry.

We decided to create pictorial visual aids - for a reference/on-the-job training of defects. There could be more picture examples of a scrap definition but these visual aids only show 1 possibility which best depicts the "scrap definition".

NOW, would you slap a control number on these visual aids or not? I'd rather not, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

EDIT: posted the scrap transfer sheet too...
Machine shop fills in the left side; the foundry fills in the right, then it comes back to me. This way, I can see what we thought the scrap reason was and the actual reason as noted by the foundry.
I don't see any particular reason to control what you've attached, or anything else like it. This is mainly because the pictures aren't being used for illustrating acceptance criteria. A photo of what a given defect looks like, used solely for identification purposes, doesn't need to be controlled. I don't think in this case it makes any difference whether the photos are referenced in a controlled document.
 
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Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#9
I don't see any particular reason to control what you've attached, or anything else like it. This is mainly because the pictures aren't being used for illustratin acceptance criteria. A photo of what a given defect looks like, used solely for identification purposes, doesn't need to be controlled. I don't think in this case it makes any difference whether the photos are referenced in a controlled document.
I agree. I added a doc owner, date and "reference" in the heading. But yeah, it is not acceptance criteria. It's merely a picture to help someone ID the correct description of the problem for when it gets logged in on the transfer sheet.
 
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