Design Control Issues - Toolroom says the system is too complicated

[Fire Girl]

Hello

Ok. There seems to be some issues with my design control issues. My design guy in the toolroom says the system is too complicated. Perhaps that's why he wears velcro shoes....

Anyway, I need a very simple procedure to perhaps explain this better. I was pretty proud of my procedure/form. I have a form that he can follow the process along and fill in as he completes steps. I have attached it for you guys to take a look at. (Design Data Sheet). Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks guys!

FG

 

[barb butrym]

who does design control? What does he do it now ? How does HE want to meet the requirement? Does he know and understand the requirement for evidence? Does he understand verification and validation? The procedure and form should reflect his thoughts, not yours. I personally like the form, but leads me to many questions on the V&V stuff.

Does he think it ties his hands...I would guess yes. How about a basic MS project chart template he can change?

 

[Fire Girl]

Perhaps I'm just screwed...

Barb

The procedure is his! I am huge on letting the employees draft their own procedures and I always have them review them before I issues them. He has approved this. There is a flow chart (I have attached it to this message) for his operations manual. It's starting to look more and more like he is lazy and stupid. Bad combination. I kind of think he just doesn't understand it. Although, he says that he does. There are some underlying employee issues here too but I won't go into those.

Thanks BArb!!

FG

 

[barb butrym]

design engineers....urrrrrrgh

design, for me, is one of the toughest nuts to crack...not because of the requirements, but because of the nature of the beast. Engineers are "mathematical, creative and visual" people to various degrees and to a fault...by nature...thats what makes them good at what they do......and what works here today may not tomorrow. This is by no means a hit on engineers........ Just my opinion looking in. SO that in mind...how can we help? Well as I said my favorite is a project management tool template with all the shalls required and the extras as optional...it keeps them in control, but lets them be creative. Their understanding of teh standard is probably not the same as yours...it never is....the key is to somehow get buy in by making it a tool that helps them.......

 

[Fire Girl]

Hi

Project Management Tool huh? Do you use something like that in your workplace? If so I would like to see sample please. Is it kind of like my Design Data Sheet that I attached a few messages up? That tells them what they need to do and then sign off and date when the step is copmplete. They are expected to attach copies of meeting minutes, drawings etc as evidence all these things really did happen. I don't know how to make this any easier.

Engineers got nothin' on toolmakers!!!!

FG

 

[barb butrym]

you are right

toolmakers.......hmmmm forgot about them, they fit the same mold, I agree

I use MS Project. I am a consultant so i don't have one that is mine...I helped to develop many..... but usually let the engineer do it (it helps the buy in!!!!!) i will look around my archieves for a draft. Basically We take a completed complex design and work backward....listing what was required, what one would expect to see in the file as a minimum and a wish list. The chief project engineer takes the template and adds or deletes steps as he plans the design, he puts in the details, milestones etc as it applies to each design....and assigns responsibility...once the task is completed on the chart, the record is placed in the file. Updates to the plan are automatically tracked and visable on the network. Each project is a notebook and the table of contents is updated with each entry into the folders. Each company has its own set of criteria and review requirements based on product complexity....so I never bothered to keep one.

 

[David Mullins]

horses for courses?

FG,
Do you need to have design development requirements which are scaled to the size of the job?
You don't have to apply all the design control requirements of a $25 million job to a $100 job.

I'll email you some procedures and a form that might give you some ideas - unfortunately I haven't got one that'll fly for you straight of the bat.

PS - that flow chart...was...(how do I say ugly in a nice way?)...um...perhaps needs to be better customised to the needs of the user.

 

[barb butrym]

flow chart

I agree its quite lean, but is presented with a detailed procedure...so it appears to be an overview/summary to show the shalls are covered.....Or that is what i read into it....LOL

I just had a brain storm........perhaps that is where all the discussion of flow charts not being allowed as procedures comes from......????????????

 

[Fire Girl]

Can't stop the tears....

David

I'm crushed.... y y y y you don't like my flow chart????? LOL Yes it's a little lean but there are procedures that go with it. I just attached the flow chart. Plus I figured simplicity would be key with these guys...

Can you guys give me your definition of the difference between verificaiton and validation? That seems to be a real bone of contention.

David- thanks for the stuff you sent. I just skimmed thru it, but it looks like it will be helpful.

Thanks.

FG

 

[Michael T]

Definitions....

Hiya FG...

FWIW... these are how I am defining verification & validation:

Verification - matching the output process to the design specification to ensure specs are met.

Validation - testing the physical output to ensure it meets the established design criteria & specifications.


Make sense? I can try to elaborate with examples if you like.

Cheers!!!