Design Responsible - Determining if Organization is Design Responsible

C

CE2JD2

#1
Hi All,
This is my first posting so please bear with me :)

We have our TS re-registration coming up in early 2008 and are considering excluding design responsibility in our scope. I have been asked what the definition of "Design Responsibility" is to see if in fact we are responsible, by definition (ie. ISO definition). We offer full R&D and CAE capability if our customers need assistance, our customers always perform final validation.

Can anyone help me with an official definition? I have looked on IATF/IAOB websites and was unable to find a definition.

Thanks!
 
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D

Duke Okes

#2
If you can be more specific about what your company actually does, it would be easier for Cove members to evaluate. Providing an all-encompassing definition is difficult, since there are many nuances involved in some situations. For example, it's not unusual for customer to do final validation even if you do the design, since they may have the final product into which what you produce goes/works ... in effect, the customer has the environment required for validation.

Another easy way is simply ask your registrar.
 
C

CE2JD2

#4
Thanks for the responses. We make iron castings (manifolds, turbo housings etc..). For 98% of our work we get handed a conceptual or fully defined design (CAD) and we may alter it slightly for our manufacturing process. There have been a few cases (1-2) where we have been contracted as design responsible. So, we could go for years without a design responsible contract and simply make what we are provided. When we propose changes to the product design (to fit our manufacturing process, or best practices) they are always approved by the customer first, so I don't even think we have direct authority, changes are proposed and accepted/declined by the customer.

Our organization is thinking there is no benefit to having design responsibility in the scope of our registration as it adds cost (audit days) and opens up more 'shalls' that we need to comply with.

I have talked to our registrar and they pointed me to IATF/IAOB, which turned out nothing so far. I was hoping to find something in the sanctioned interpretations or FAQ's that I can take back to our management for some decision making.

Thanks again
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#6
I asked SMMT
Howard said:
Do the interpretations of ISO/TC 176 as published here http://www.tc176.org/Interpre.asp apply to audits according to ISO/TS 16949:2002 ?

Thanking you in advance
SMMT said:
The answer regarding ISO/TC 176 is No.
CE2JD2 said:
Thanks for the responses. We make iron castings (manifolds, turbo housings etc..). For 98% of our work we get handed a conceptual or fully defined design (CAD) and we may alter it slightly for our manufacturing process.
This is exactly the meaning of process design

What does your order say?
What are you paid for?
The definition should be there
 
V

vanputten

#7
Interpretations for ISO 9001 don't apply to TS? Do you mean from a conformity assessment stand point or from a general knowledge stand point?

I say they apply to both. It is my understanding that TS includes all of the text and intent of ISO 9001.

Also, if you will only accept those things that are officially approved by the IATF, then you might as well cancel this thread and send the IATF an e mail or call them or go to their website.

Don't ask us for reference material and ideas if you only want sactioned responses.


Regards,

Dirk
 
C

CE2JD2

#8
Hey Dirk,
Yes, for sure TS includes all of ISO 9001.

I think there is a mis-understanding here...I don't believe I stated anywhere I am only looking for sanctioned responses.:truce:

IATF/IAOB has a "Sanctioned Interpretations" area on their website, which is what I referenced earlier in my posting. This is where I was "hoping" to find some answers, but to no avail.

I am looking for help from the users of this forum and have received some excellent responses and material so far.:applause:

As far as I am concerned this posting will not be canceled as there is lots of good information coming out.

:thanx:
 
D

Duke Okes

#9
I overlooked the fact you are TS registered. You cannot exclude 7.3 since it is applied to process design as well as product design.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
I have always used the simple criterion of 'Do you have the (direct) authority to change a product design?'

If not, you're not design responsible, even if you have CAE and R & D capabilities.

That is correct, but remember, the exclusion requires a justification. And usually, the only justification is that the customer does the product design. That would leave the organization responsible for only process design.
 
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