Detection Action for Failure Effects - AIAG 4th Edition Layout

Cephissus

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#1
Dear all,

Sincere apologies if this was discussed before... I'm pretty sure it must have been.

So basically in the standard AIAG 4th Edition Layout we have two seperate columns for when the Detection Action is for the Failure Mode and when the Detection Action is for the Failure Cause.

What happens when the Detection Action is for the Failure Effect?

Where do we put that?

Thanks a lot for your support
 
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Miner

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#2
Remember, an FMEA is a risk identification, prioritization and mitigation tool. The further upstream (failure cause) that a detection is used, the more effective the mitigation. If you are not trying to detect the failure cause or failure mode, you are not mitigating the risk. By conciously allowing the failure effect to occur, you are accepting the risk, not mitigating it.
 

GRP

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#3
Dear all,

Sincere apologies if this was discussed before... I'm pretty sure it must have been.

So basically in the standard AIAG 4th Edition Layout we have two seperate columns for when the Detection Action is for the Failure Mode and when the Detection Action is for the Failure Cause.

What happens when the Detection Action is for the Failure Effect?

Where do we put that?

Thanks a lot for your support
The columns you describe do not seem familiar to me. In the AIAG 4th edition you have columns for prevention controls and detection controls.

The prevention controls act on the causes and/or failure mode and have an effect on the occurrence ranking. The detection controls act on the failure mode and determine the detection ranking.

If your "current controls" point toward the effect, then it is likely there is a mix up between failure mode, effect and cause.

If you can share some details of the line you are analyzing we can give it a go.
 

Marc

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Admin
#4
the standard AIAG 4th Edition Layout we have two seperate columns for when the Detection Action is for the Failure Mode and when the Detection Action is for the Failure Cause.
Can you attach a copy/picture of the form you're using?
 

Cephissus

Involved In Discussions
#5
1559906830109.png

Yes so let's consider the following hypothetical Failure Chain:

Too high pressure on the machine -> Too low Thickness -> Too high sound levels

For this failure chain, I could have detection actions aiming at:
- Controlling the pressure (at the Cause level)
- Controlling the Thickness (at the Mode level)
- Controlling the Sound (at the Effect level)

Since the Detection Actions column only has two options (Cause & Mode). What do I do with the 3rd one (Detection Action on Effect) ?
 

GRP

Involved In Discussions
#6
View attachment 25776

Yes so let's consider the following hypothetical Failure Chain:

Too high pressure on the machine -> Too low Thickness -> Too high sound levels

For this failure chain, I could have detection actions aiming at:
- Controlling the pressure (at the Cause level)
- Controlling the Thickness (at the Mode level)
- Controlling the Sound (at the Effect level)

Since the Detection Actions column only has two options (Cause & Mode). What do I do with the 3rd one (Detection Action on Effect) ?
The 3rd column that you mention does not seem to appear above and I do not think it is featured in any of the 4th edition templates.

At any rate, a high pressure on the machine produces low thickness (product) and this results on high sound levels (due to low thickness), correct?

Function: to produce the part
Req: thickness [mm] (product)
Failure mode: low thickness (product)
Cause: low pressure in the machine (wrong setup? sensor malfunction? calibration off?)
Effects: high sound level (I assume this is the effect on the end user)

You are right to address detections of the cause and/or failure mode. You have an alarm for low pressure, or close loop control, or you have setup sheets, 1st piece check, variable/attribute gauging, and so on.

IMHO it makes no sense to discuss detection of the effect, being that the effect is what the end user (in this case) perceives or experiences. As such, the product is out there in the field. A detection of this would be through a complaint.

I would question the reason and value of including this detection type in the template.

Has anyone ever seen detection of the effect in the FMEA literature?
 
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