"Detection, NOT Prevention!" - Relying on Final Inspection

[Bev D]

Re: "Detection, NOT Prevention!!!!"

In my experience, you really only have 3 choices:
1. give in and become like them.
2. Persist in trying to show them how prevention or early detection can work and save money and time (logical arguments about this won't work. They have a paradigm, what you are suggesting is fatal under their paradigm' much like Columbus trying to convince people that the earth was round and you wouldn't fall off if you sailed west from Spain).
3. Monster.com. Seriously.

 

[mzt9fbpm]

Re: "Detection, NOT Prevention!!!!"

In addition to the financial numbers and other data that exists; what about suggesting that one area 'tries' it your way. You don't want a battle but rather you want them to try something (try is a less threatening word). And to focus on just one area provides a small pilot program or experiment without committing management to an overhaul.

 

[bettsaj]

Thank for all for your words of encouragement, I don't think i'll be knocking on monsters door just yet..... I'm not defeatest

One other thing that I need to take into the equation when dealing with all this figurework is the scrap or perfectly good parts!!!!

Yes you heard correctly, scrap of perfectly good parts. If there's an order for say 5 parts they will inevitably make some overs as a contingency just in case there's any issues and also to use as set up pieces. They may make 3 or 4 overs.

i asked what happened to these overs and the setter replied... "well if we've got enough good ones for the customer we just throw the overs in the skip.

Money down the drain i feel. I need to get the bottom of just how much OK parts are being thrown away.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Thank for all for your words of encouragement, I don't think i'll be knocking on monsters door just yet..... I'm not defeatest

One other thing that I need to take into the equation when dealing with all this figurework is the scrap or perfectly good parts!!!!

Yes you heard correctly, scrap of perfectly good parts. If there's an order for say 5 parts they will inevitably make some overs as a contingency just in case there's any issues and also to use as set up pieces. They may make 3 or 4 overs.

i asked what happened to these overs and the setter replied... "well if we've got enough good ones for the customer we just throw the overs in the skip.

Money down the drain i feel. I need to get the bottom of just how much OK parts are being thrown away.

Most companies are able to negotiate the sale of "overage" production of custom parts to a customer for his repairs/replacements. It is a matter to deal with at contract stage, NOT after delivery. The key, of course, is that everything depends on the supplier's net cost of producing these "extras." Is it part of the calculation when making the contract or is it a silent enemy, chomping away at profitability while being dismissed as "overhead?"

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

If there's an order for say 5 parts they will inevitably make some overs as a contingency just in case there's any issues and also to use as set up pieces. They may make 3 or 4 overs.
Money down the drain i feel.

Did I get that right? 3 or 4 overs for an order for for 5 parts?! :mg: I agree. Pure waste, caused by poor confidence in the companys processes. The question, as you say, is whether this lack of confidence is justified or not? If it is, the yield is truly terrible, and if not, money is gushing down the drain for no reason.

/Claes

 

[bettsaj]

I've dug deeper on this issue of the overs... It would appear that the ones I had targeted were one offs. Not scheduled parts, therefore we may never see them again. Even so.....

 

[Wes Bucey]

I've dug deeper on this issue of the overs... It would appear that the ones I had targeted were one offs. Not scheduled parts, therefore we may never see them again. Even so.....

Most job shops deal in short runs and one-offs. Usually, though, in short runs, each piece is checked for conformance as it is made and production stops when the order is filled. Set up pieces often have flaws and are true scrap. If overage is a habit, it means the in-process inspection is faulty and there is likely to be some "hand finishing" or repair to achieve sufficient good parts to ship.

Investigation will determine if the problem is systemic or limited to operators with deficient work practices. Once that is determined, you can proceed to a fix.

 

[JRKH]

BOY can I sympathize...
You have your hands full...

I do have a suggestion though that might be helpful.

The company I worked for for many years did just this kind of work and we purchased a Virtek 2D inspection station. It was relatively inexpensive (about $30k US in about 2005).
It allows you to make a DXF format drawing in the machine, then laser scan the actual part for comparison. With just a little training it allowed operators to check there first piece set-up VERY fast and accurately. In addition it offered the possibility of reverse engineering some parts.

The cost is such that the purchase price is not out of line with a single years salary, and since the company would get many years use from it, it makes it quite affordable.

Youtube has a number of videos that you can watch showing various aspects of the machine...Go HERE

My experience was that we could get in a job, and while the shop was getting ready to run it, I could (using a CAD program) draw a DXF file and send it to the Virtek. Then, when the job was set up at the punch, the first article would be brought, scanned and overlayed with the DXF that I made. This had the benefit of checking both his part programming and my drawing (the odds of us both getting the same feature wrong by the same amount is veerrry slim).
Then, every time the customer ordered that part, we simply checked the rev level against what was programmed in the Virtek and moved on from there.

Hope this helps...

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Re: "Detection, NOT Prevention!!!!"

I have a very good relationship with our BSI assessor... He usd to be my Quality Manager when I was a lowley Quality Engineer about 10 years ago. regarding the management positions here... All the dinosaurs are middle managament like myself. We have one general manager who's hardly ever here, and doesn't tend to get wholly involved with the day to day running of the company. He spends probably about 2 days a week in the office, the rest of the time he's out *visiting people*

The engineering manager has suggested that If i want to ensure that the DXF programs are correct I should screen check them myself... i'm not keen on that as I will be doing his job or the job of one of his engineers. My task is to ensure that what comes out the machine is correct... Not to screen check DXF programmes instead of one of his engineers.... Or do you think i'm being difficult by taking that stance?

I'm just stating to read through the responses - and this one caught my eye...
Depending on the complexity of the parts, it might be easier for you to actually draw the part yourself in DXF and overlay it with the engineer's drawing. I use to do this with our laser programmer and we caught each others mistakes a number of different times.
In our case I was making the drawing for our Virtek laser inspection machine and he was making his for producing the parts. But I found that just going ahead ans drawing the parts was, for me, quicker than trying to "screen check" another person's work.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

bettsaj,

I've been exactly where you are now...Time and education are the key things. The "Dinosaurs" need to be helped and coaxed into the more modern methods.
What they are doing isn't "Bad" since it has been working for them so far, but they need help in finding out that things, changes, can not only improve productivity and profits, but make their lives easier as well.

How large is your operation? How many work there?

Peace
James