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Determining if Maintenance Contractor is an External Service subject to ISO 9001 Clause 8.4

#41
Organizations, I believe, have the ability to discern whether they are going to slip in such slippery slope. I will never recommend to subject Amazon to 8.4. There's no value in it. But maintenance service provider of production equipment, in my view, should be controlled. Provision of maintenance services to an organization's production equipment is not a one-time engagement and, usually, build long-term relationship for both parties. One way of ensuring the contractor deserves that relationship is through monitoring of their performance (an 8.4 control). If an organization need to look for another contractor, they need to subject the prospective contractor to their selection/evaluation process (again another 8.4 control).

You mentioned:

This is your view, but can be viewed differently by others. Others might have experiences of lousy maintenance job that resulted to quality and delivery problems. So, it pays to subject maintenance contractors to controls. Obviously, they will do this because organizations need to "ensure that externally provided processes, products and services do not adversely affect the organization’s ability to consistently deliver conforming products and services to its customers" (8.4.2). Why would an organization deem 8.4 is not applicable to maintenance services provider for production equipment when they are already fulfilling it.
I stand with Sidney here. It is not an organization that deems that a maintenance provider that determines 8.4 is not applicable (your words), it is that the standard doesn't include them. I think it is very clear.

That said, it doesn't mean that an organization can't vet them in the same manner if they so choose, but don't go trying to force fit it as a requirement.
 

tony s

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#42
Maintenance of production equipment is a "process" indispensable to manufacturing. If a manufacturer decided to outsource this process, instead of performing it by themselves, this clearly falls under 8.4.1c where the standard states: "The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products and services when: c) a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization".

The maintenance service of production equipment does not even 'touch" the intended product
Could be since there are instances that they need to do trial runs. There are external service providers of processes integral to manufacturing where they don't touch the product such as calibration laboratories. Maybe not explicitly mentioned by ISO 9001 but controls to be applied are very specific in the automotive standards. Nonetheless, ISO 9001 clause 8.4.1c provides a blanket statement that organizations must determine controls to be applied to externally provided processes like maintenance, calibration, recruitment, transport of products, etc.
 
#43
Maintenance of production equipment is a "process" indispensable to manufacturing. If a manufacturer decided to outsource this process, instead of performing it by themselves, this clearly falls under 8.4.1c where the standard states: "The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products and services when: c) a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization".


Could be since there are instances that they need to do trial runs. There are external service providers of processes integral to manufacturing where they don't touch the product such as calibration laboratories. Maybe not explicitly mentioned by ISO 9001 but controls to be applied are very specific in the automotive standards. Nonetheless, ISO 9001 clause 8.4.1c provides a blanket statement that organizations must determine controls to be applied to externally provided processes like maintenance, calibration, recruitment, transport of products, etc.
Funny that my copy of the standard doesn't include that detail. Yours doesn't either.
 
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