Determining the number of Internal Audit Man-Days

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Re: Internal Audit Man-Days

I believe that accreditation body guidelines permit CB's to amend the number of days allocated depending on the complexity of the work and also things like 'parallel working' e.g. a lot of people all doing the same work.
Very true for 3rd party audits. But let's not lose sight of the OP's original question about internal audits. ;)

Stijloor.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#12
Re: Internal Audit Man-Days

It is a fool's errand to try to define the man days to do a round of internal audits. There are so many variables:

  • The auditor's skill and experience
  • The system's maturity
  • Number and types of revisits of previous findings to cover
  • How many manufacturing processes need auditing in the year
  • How many shifts are run
  • Number of employees
  • Number and complexity of processes
  • What system is it - I would spend extra care on regulated processes
I can appreciate wanting to make a plan, but I absolutely would avoid making a target amount of time.
:2cents:
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#14
Re: Internal Audit Man-Days

amanbhai,

Pl do not worry about number of days for Internal Audit - the intent is improvement and not certification :)
 
B

Brunetta

#15
Re: Internal Audit Man-Days

In planning our audit program...this question was raised also.

We found that being flexible was the answer that worked for our small company.

Our auditors are not full time dedicated auditors, sometimes a particular project may impact either the auditor or auditees schedule.
However, there has been no instance of someone being unavailable for a complete month.

So, our audits are scheduled with a month for the auditor to complete.

Does it take all 30 days for our auditors to complete a process audit?
No.

They may take 1 day to desk audit the documents, a few hours a week later to interview or observe the process, and another day or so to complete the analysis, then the closing meeting is scheduled at a time convenient for both parties. Once an agreement has been reached by everyone the audit report is written (usually this does not take long either- but also may not occur during the same day the closing meeting occurs).

It requires auditors who really want to audit, they also have to take very good notes, and be very good at time management (which is what we expect from our auditors anyway).

I also monitor (COMMUNICATE with the auditors) to track at what stage a particular audit is at during the month and if the auditor is having any issues that can be resolved with assistance. Generally it is due to an auditor getting a case of scope creep or time management and this is resolved and noted for the next audit the auditor is assigned. Most likely at that time the auditor will be paired with a more effective auditor so they can be exposed to that auditors best practices.

The results have been that very few audit reports arrive late, our audit program follows the plan, the auditors primary roles have not been disrupted, and our audits have given us some very valuable insights for improvements.

Again our company is small, this may not work for all sizes. But this is how we worked out an answer to the question.
~Brunetta
 
J

JaneB

#16
Re: Internal Audit Man-Days

It is a fool's errand to try to define the man days to do a round of internal audits.
Yes - precisely because there are so many variables, as listed. My suggestions:
*I'd remove 'manufacturing' and just say processes. Even in a MF company, not all processes to be audited are manufacturing ones, surely?
* I'd add in 'top management involvement' - ie, how closely involved are they? How much info do they need/want from internal audit? Is it just a 'go through the motions minimum' or do they want more?

Note that managers do tend to want to get some kind of handle on what kind of resource time might be required... I know, they constantly ask me. I'll only give an estimate IF and WHEN I have at least some if not most of the answers to the variables you've listed. (Hint, amanabhai - post a 'how long is a piece of string?' question, and that's the only kind of answer it's possible to give back.)
 
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