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DFMEA/PFMEA and SCCAF alignment

toniriazor

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hello everybody,

I work as a quality engineer for the past year and I am very much interested in DFMEA/PFMEA and SCCAF
The engineers where I work are unable to tell me the following:
1 ) should DFMEA and PFMEA be aligned in terms of SC and CC (Significant and Critical Characteristics). When I have in DFMEA SC or CC does it mean I should have them in PFMEA as well ?​
2 ) SCCAF (special characteristic communication and agreement form). Here is my biggest concern and I am not sure what is the correct way of work: Are all SC and CC in SCCAF taken from DFMEA and PFMEA or first we should identify them in SCCAF and from there to apply them in DFMEA/ PFMEA ?​
I hope my questions are clear to the point.

Thank you very much for the support.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#3
Typically you identify potential SC/CCs in the DFMEA. When completing the PFMEA, you should review all potential SC/CCs and either confirm them as actual SC/CC or not.
 

toniriazor

Starting to get Involved
#4
Thank you all for answering.
to put it clear when SCCAF is created ? after DFMEA/PFMEA development and identifying all SC and CC or vice versa ? For me all output in DFMEA and PFMEA should be used as input for SCCAF but I might be wrong...
Thank you.
 

toniriazor

Starting to get Involved
#6
Is there a reason why you are not sharing your SCCAF form with us here so we know exactly what you are referring to?
yes this data is not available on my home pc - from where I am posting. Additionally is confidential and I will not share it since this is against company policy. Here is how it looks like in a different format.
YS means SC from DFMEA
SC
- from PFMEA

what is not clear for me is - SC in the PFMEA field does it come from PFMEA or first it should be indicated in SCCAF like the way it is shown on the picture and then put in PFMEA ?
 

Attachments

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#7
SC in the PFMEA field does it come from PFMEA or first it should be indicated in SCCAF like the way it is shown on the picture and then put in PFMEA
Since your company's SCCAF process is not part of a recognized process, I can't help any more than Miner and I already have.
 

Sebastian

Really trusted?
Trusted
#8
what is not clear for me is - SC in the PFMEA field does it come from PFMEA or first it should be indicated in SCCAF like the way it is shown on the picture and then put in PFMEA ?
Everything starts from determination of requirements, identification of risks and evaluation of seriousness of risk consequences. These are purposes of DFMEA and PFMEA procedures and therefore these are only sources of special characteristics. When you get special characteristics list from your customer, it should be attached with fragments of risk analysis giving rationale why these characteristics were selected as special ones. Then you can transfer this knowledge to you PFMEA. Unfortunately, I do not know any customer who behaves so responsibly and shares it. In such case you are forced to put it inside your PFMEA and give yourself rationale why you put it there. Rationale "customer request it" is wrong.

Conclusion - DFMEA, PFMEA are initial documents where special characteristics are identified. All other documents listing special characteristics (including drawing) have only reproductive character.
 

GRP

Involved In Discussions
#9
yes this data is not available on my home pc - from where I am posting. Additionally is confidential and I will not share it since this is against company policy. Here is how it looks like in a different format.
YS means SC from DFMEA
SC
- from PFMEA

what is not clear for me is - SC in the PFMEA field does it come from PFMEA or first it should be indicated in SCCAF like the way it is shown on the picture and then put in PFMEA ?
I´ll assume the terms YS, SC, SCCAF refer to Ford. In this case YS and YC are potential significant and critical characteristics. If you supply parts to the OEM or a tier 1 you will be handed the SCCAF document with a set of identified characteristics.

Probably you will find customer inputs on the left columns. On the right you´d expect to find the PFMEA columns, which are meant to be filled.

In concrete answer to your questions:

1) You have to address all special characteristics in the document. If confirmed as special characteristics, YS/YC in DFMEA (left) should be entered as SC/CC in PFMEA. The document itself should contain relevant information as to how to go about this confirmation
2) The YS and YC were identified during the DFMEA and were placed in the SCCAF. I assume you received the SCCAF from your customer, hence you just fill the supplier part as above.

Hope it helps, if not, let´s try again
 

toniriazor

Starting to get Involved
#10
I´ll assume the terms YS, SC, SCCAF refer to Ford. In this case YS and YC are potential significant and critical characteristics. If you supply parts to the OEM or a tier 1 you will be handed the SCCAF document with a set of identified characteristics.

Probably you will find customer inputs on the left columns. On the right you´d expect to find the PFMEA columns, which are meant to be filled.

In concrete answer to your questions:

1) You have to address all special characteristics in the document. If confirmed as special characteristics, YS/YC in DFMEA (left) should be entered as SC/CC in PFMEA. The document itself should contain relevant information as to how to go about this confirmation
2) The YS and YC were identified during the DFMEA and were placed in the SCCAF. I assume you received the SCCAF from your customer, hence you just fill the supplier part as above.

Hope it helps, if not, let´s try again
Thank you for your thorough answer.
It makes sense what you said. If I understood well all YS/YC in DFMEA are listed in SCCAF. Then the tier 1 receives this document from FORD let's say and manufacturer should agree to enter those in PFMEA also as SC/CC only if recognized as such. Normally the plant recognizes YS from DFMEA as SC in SCCAF and PFMEA when the probability of occurence is more than 4 correct ?

Thanks for the good discussion.
 
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