Difference between 7.4.1 and 7.4.3

[sneekparty]

Hi Guys,

Maybe a silly question, but I wondered if anyone could explain me the difference between the first part of 7.4.1. and the first part of 7.4.3.

In the first part of 7.4.1. ISO states that you have to ensue that the purchased product is conform the specified purchase requirements. And in the first part of 7.4.3. they state that you have to ensure you have any kind of inspection or other activity to ensure that the purchased product is conform the specified purchase requirements.

Personally I don't see the difference except for the inspection part...what's your opinion....

Greetz,
Martin

 

[M Greenaway]

Martin

I think you are right.

The authors of the new standard do tend to go around and around in circles.

Regards

Martin

 

[Chris May]

I tend to agree with you guys...

The only intention implied that I can think of, is that, in 7.4.1 you have to ensure that what you will be buying is actually fit for purpose prior to purchase, and 7.4.3 is to ensure that you actually get what you have specified.



Regards,

Chris

 

[Anton Ovsianko]

Yes, Martin,

And that is what makes me a little upset or disappointed about the new standard. Making thses circles would be helpful if they were writing a textbook on quality. Then it probably contributed to better understanding of the subject. However, in a standard it only allows for additional and unnecessary point to interpret, misunderstand and argue.



regards

Anton

 

[M Greenaway]

True Anton

I have tried to write checklists for ISO9001:2000, but because the standard goes around and around in circles it is very difficult.

 

[sneekparty]

I am glad that you agree with me...

Hi Guys,

I am glad that you agree with me...In some ways ISO has improved, but it also drives down in circles...like this...

An other question:
Do you have other examples in which ISO goes around in circles?

Greetings,
Martin

 

[Anton Ovsianko]

Sneekerparty:

Examples? here we are:

7.1 vs 7.5.1. (see my recent post of June)

the one we started this thread with

Management review vs. data analysis (sorry, never remember the Clause numbers)

Process control and monitoring vs. 7.1 and 7.5.1 - both latter mension procedures and criteria for process and product control. etc...

Let me see the text (I do not have it on hand at the moment) and I will give you more examples.

Certainly none of these examples present total equality of Clauses. However they overlap significantly.

Regards,

Anton

 

[M Greenaway]

I wont mention 'determine the requirements determined by the organisation' again !!

 

[sneekparty]

OK...thanks for the replies..but another question...

OK Guys,

Thanks for the many replies, but I have another question...Just a few minutes ago I talked to our HRM manager and we had a discussion about the requirements for HRM...

But we both didn't understand the difference between 6.2.2. (A) Compentence, Awareness and Training of ISO 2k and ISO 94

In ISO 94 the also state that you have to determine the necessary competence for personel performing work affecting productquality...

Maybe you experts could help me..(again )

Thanks anyway and greetings,
Martin

 

[E Wall]

6.2.2 Competence, Awareness and Training

The new requirements:

1) Evaluate the effectiveness of training or other activities to improve competency of personnel.

and 2) Ensure that employees are aware of the importance of their activities and how they contribute to the achievement of quality objectives.

We've always done both...so nothing new to us. We handle the first by a pre-test given at the start of training compared to the final test results of the course. The second I think most already included in their systems as well.
BR,
Eileen