Difference between Gage R&R and Round Robin testing?

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
As I am given to understand, a GR&R is internal, whether you have 1 or 100 people and 1 or 100 machines.....

However, Round Robin, aka inter-laboratory comparison (ILC) or proficiency test (PT), is between different organizations.....it needs to be noted that PT/ILC may often have a level of rigor not normally considered to be associated with Round Robins, to include a report detailing Z-Score (test) or En Score (calibration).....
 
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U

Umang Vidyarthi

#12
Miner has given the correct distinction between the two.

Let me elaborate further. The term "Round Robin" is usually associated with sports, and in the school/college days we use to play "Round Robin" tourneys, in which all the teams/participants are pitted against each other i.e. every one plays against every one else; in order to bring forth the best. This is different from the knock-out system, which does not 'always' bring out the best.

Similarly, "Round Robin Test/Analysis" is performed severally, involving multiple appraisers, equipments and methods, pitting them against each other using all the permutations & combinations, to bring out the best of the results.BTW the "Round Robin" is of french origin 'ruban rond' meaning- round ribbon.

Umang :D
As I am given to understand, a GR&R is internal, whether you have 1 or 100 people and 1 or 100 machines.....

However, Round Robin, aka inter-laboratory comparison (ILC) or proficiency test (PT), is between different organizations.....it needs to be noted that PT/ILC may often have a level of rigor not normally considered to be associated with Round Robins, to include a report detailing Z-Score (test) or En Score (calibration).....
IMO it is not correct to associate 'Round Robin test', as between different organisations alone. As I have elaborated in my post ibid, appraisers-methods-equipments are vollyed against each other (irrespective of being internal/external) to bring out 'reproducibility.

The major difference between the two is, that the "The Round Robin test", be it 'internal' or 'external', brings out 'reproducibility' alone; whereas 'Gauge R&R' brings out both - repeatability as well as reproducibility. Since 'Repeatability is the variation in measurement taken by a single person or instrument on the same item under the same condition', it is rendered out of Round Robin's scope.

In other words, you may say that, one part of the Gauge R&R conducts Round Robin test. Hope this brings more clarity.

Umang :D
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
Which then makes it different still than PT/ILC/ which also requires all the Type B influences, besides the repeatability and reproducibility.....
 
M

mboucher

#14
Do anyone know who sells round robin services? I've heard of of several companies that have certified artifacts and do the correlation but cannot find any on the web.

Mark
 
K

Kevin H

#15
Mark, a lot depends on what product/tests you want to participate. For Metal Powder tsts, MPIF sponsors an interlaboratory program. When I managed a mechanical testing lab for flat rolled stainless steel we found a service for tensile testing, Rockwell hardness, etc. through A2LA, our accreditation service for ISO Guide 25. The one we used offered other tests and services as well as the ones we used, and no unfortunately I do not remember their name - that was 8 years ago.

In searching for one, I'd contact industry or trade organizations, and organizations accrediting labs to ISO 17025.
 
V

Voyteck79

#16
Hi all

Round Robin came back like round robin :) I want to do intralaboratory (insiade), not inter :)

So, if i do Gage RR in Minitab 3 operators 5 measueremnts and 3 trials. What will be the result?

Process tolerance = 1


Study Var %Study Var %Tolerance
Source StdDev (SD) (6 * SD) (%SV) (SV/Toler)
Total Gage R&R 0,0921058 0,552635 100,00 55,26
Repeatability 0,0781778 0,469067 84,88 46,91
Reproducibility 0,0487003 0,292202 52,87 29,22
operator 0,0487003 0,292202 52,87 29,22
Part-To-Part 0,0000000 0,000000 0,00 0,00
Total Variation 0,0921058 0,552635 100,00 55,26


I think that will be: Productability operator SV/Toler. is it OK?

Maybe someone have example form?
I'll be greatfull.
Regards!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#17
Please clarify your question. We are not certain what you are asking.

If you are looking for an MSA form, see the file attached to this blog entry.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
A couple of organizations that provide PT including

MeasurePT and NAPT, among others.

ABs under APLAC and ILAC protocols can - EITHER - offer PT themselves or through APLAC/ILAC - OR - accredit PT providers, but are not allowed to do both.

A2LA accredits PT providers. You can check at www.a2la.org

Other ABs tend to offer PT directly or through APLAC/ILAC.

Hope this helps.
 
V

Voyteck79

#19
I whant to do RR for hardness testing. 5 operators, 1 machine, 2 trial. I have 36HRC test block.

My question is can i do GRR? what results for this will be % of RR.

Second question is from were is 95% of 36HRC ?

thanks.
 
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