Differences between an NCR and CAR

globalquality

Registered
I read this thread thoroughly, but I still would like to know the difference between "Disposition" and "CA".
In theory, a disposition can be "repair" or "rework", and both of these are indeed "corrective actions" (they are actions with the intention of correcting the non-conformance).
So what is the difference between disposition and CA?
 

GStough

Leader
Super Moderator
I read this thread thoroughly, but I still would like to know the difference between "Disposition" and "CA".
In theory, a disposition can be "repair" or "rework", and both of these are indeed "corrective actions" (they are actions with the intention of correcting the non-conformance).
So what is the difference between disposition and CA?

Disposition usually is the action of "disposing of" the nonconforming product - scrap, rework, reprocess, accept on concession, repair.
Corrective Action is the action taken to eliminate the root cause that resulted in nonconforming product.

At least, that's how I interpret it.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
I read this thread thoroughly, but I still would like to know the difference between "Disposition" and "CA".
In theory, a disposition can be "repair" or "rework", and both of these are indeed "corrective actions" (they are actions with the intention of correcting the non-conformance).
So what is the difference between disposition and CA?
For my part, I agree with Gidget and reserve the use of "CA" (corrective action) for changes to the PROCESS which generated a suspect product, while "disposition" applies only to the suspect product or products(scrap, rework, use as is, etc.)
 

globalquality

Registered
Disposition usually is the action of "disposing of" the nonconforming product - scrap, rework, reprocess, accept on concession, repair.
Corrective Action is the action taken to eliminate the root cause that resulted in nonconforming product.

At least, that's how I interpret it.
For my part, I agree with Gidget and reserve the use of "CA" (corrective action) for changes to the PROCESS which generated a suspect product, while "disposition" applies only to the suspect product or products(scrap, rework, use as is, etc.)


Thank you all for sharing your opinion.
However, I believe that what you mentioned is actually preventive action:

"the action taken to eliminate the root cause that resulted in nonconforming product." To me, this is preventive action (which aims at the root of the problem to prevent the non-compliance from happening again). Because if we eliminate the root cause, we are essentially preventing the issue from recurrence.

Please let me know if you believe otherwise.
 

GStough

Leader
Super Moderator
Thank you all for sharing your opinion.
However, I believe that what you mentioned is actually preventive action:

"the action taken to eliminate the root cause that resulted in nonconforming product." To me, this is preventive action (which aims at the root of the problem to prevent the non-compliance from happening again). Because if we eliminate the root cause, we are essentially preventing the issue from recurrence.

Please let me know if you believe otherwise.

I believe Preventive Action is when a situation has the potential to produce nonconforming product but hasn't yet. There is an opportunity to take action to PREVENT the nonconformance from ever occurring. Corrective Action happens to prevent a nonconformance from RECURRING.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Please let me know if you believe otherwise.
It must NOT be matters of opinions or beliefs. For the sake of authoritativeness, look at the ISO 9000 definition of correction and corrective actions; it is freely available via the ISO Online Browsing Platform. Over the years, the misunderstanding of the definition of corrective action has been discussed here tens of times and there are multiple threads on the subject.
 

globalquality

Registered
I believe Preventive Action is when a situation has the potential to produce nonconforming product but hasn't yet. There is an opportunity to take action to PREVENT the nonconformance from ever occurring. Corrective Action happens to prevent a nonconformance from RECURRING.

I believe that preventive action is [mostly] triggered once there is actually a non-conformance, and the team will try to come up with actions to prevent the non-conformance from happening again. In other words, in an NCR, there is already a non-conformance identified (for which there will be disposition, CA, PA). So, the PA in the NCR will refer to an identified non-compliance.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Your belief is incorrect. As part of the quality management profession, we MUST have and promote concepts that are “universally” accepted. In today’s world, the NORMATIVE definitions of quality management related terms are available in the ISO 9000:2015 document. If a quality practitioner ignores the industry accepted concepts, his/her work will be misaligned with most of the other organizations that realize the need for and importance of STANDARIZATION.

Separate Corrective Action and Preventive Action Procedures
 

globalquality

Registered
Your belief is incorrect. As part of the quality management profession, we MUST have and promote concepts that are “universally” accepted. In today’s world, the NORMATIVE definitions of quality management related terms are available in the ISO 9000:2015 document. If a quality practitioner ignores the industry accepted concepts, his/her work will be misaligned with most of the other organizations that realize the need for and importance of STANDARIZATION.

Sydney, the reason I use the word "believe" is because I want to be respectful to the person that I am talking to, and not oppose the person rudely. It does not mean that I have my own, personal beliefs about ISO9001 concepts. "GStough" is also using the word "believe" in her posts, in order to be polite. I am not sure why you keep only picking on me!!

Therefore, I strongly "BELIEVE" that there is a misunderstanding in your thinking and assumptions about my knowledge regarding ISO9001.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
For my part, I agree with Gidget and reserve the use of "CA" (corrective action) for changes to the PROCESS which generated a suspect product, while "disposition" applies only to the suspect product or products(scrap, rework, use as is, etc.)
CA is invoked for nonconforming product, not suspect product. The same is true of disposition. If a product is in a "suspected" condition, neither CA nor disposition will/should occur until the condition has been confirmed.
 
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