Differences between an NCR and CAR

Scanton

Quite Involved in Discussions
Imagine if were to allow medical doctors to create their own individual terminology on their profession. Chaos would ensue.

I had to highlight this one. Many of the doctors (General Practitioners or GP's) in the Norfolk area of England use NFN (Normal for Norfolk) on their patient notes, this is most definitely not an internationally agreed on term and was in fact down to medical doctors who created their own individual terminology on their profession.

I completely understand the point you are making Sidney, but knowing the above and then reading your comment made me smile, and I thought "if only he knew".

A little of track, however I hope it makes you smile too :)
 

GStough

Leader
Super Moderator
Thank you.
So once the root-cause is found, it can be addressed through corrective action (as you mentioned). In other words, a team will try to address the root cause by essentially trying to eliminating the root cause.

Wouldn't this be preventive action then? (i.e. addressing the root cause in order to eliminate the root cause is indeed preventive action).

Note the first sentence in ISO 13485:2016, Clause 8.5.2 Corrective action:. "The organization shall take action to eliminate the cause of nonconformities in order to prevent recurrence..."

Note the first sentence in the next clause, 8.5.3 Preventive action: "The organization shall determine action to eliminate the causes of potential nonconformities in order to prevent their occurrence..."

There is a difference...
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
CA is invoked for nonconforming product, not suspect product. The same is true of disposition. If a product is in a "suspected" condition, neither CA nor disposition will/should occur until the condition has been confirmed.
Thanks for the clarification. My language was "sloppy." Obviously, only when parties (producer, customer, independent expert, etc.) agree suspect is, in fact, nonconforming, can root cause be determined, and THEN a decision on an economically viable corrective action be proposed and implemented. Even then, after implementation, the CA still needs to be evaluated for efficacy.
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The curse of answering in a forum like this is a complete solution in a short paragraph is rarely possible and may not satisfy the pedants among us and, further, consultants (such as I) usually charge a fee for examining a problem, proposing a solution, and sticking around to assure an evaluation demonstrates the proposed solution was viable and met the budget for time and money.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
The curse of answering in a forum like this is a complete solution in a short paragraph is rarely possible and may not satisfy the pedants among us...
In a thread where a visitor is struggling with standard definitions, providing them is far from pedantry.
 

Thee Bouyyy

Multiple Personalities
All the posts in this thread answered already about the CAR and NCR.

CAR: CAR stands for Corrective Action Request and it means the activity of originating a Corrective Action. In the ISO arena, CAR is by far one of the most frequently used terms for Corrective Action. The essence of CAR is to conduct investigation on a problem which already happened and needs root cause analysis and resolution to prevent recurrence. Although the acronym translates to Corrective Action Request, when companies use this acronym, they actually use it for their entire Corrective Action lifecycle rather than just the request portion.

NCR: Non-Conformance Report: NCR seems, to me, one of the most widely misunderstood acronyms. Most people tend to confuse NCR with a Corrective Action or, worse yet, with an Audit Nonconformity. First of all, a Nonconformance is an instance when a product does not meet product specifications — whether the nonconformity is major or minor – and therefore does not conform to requirements (hence the term Nonconformance).
 

Randy

Super Moderator
CAR: CAR stands for Corrective Action Request

CAR can stand for many things, like for me is stands for "Combat Action Ribbon" Differences between an NCR and CAR

CAR can stand for for Corrective Action Request but it also stands for "Center for Automotive Research", "Climate Action Reserve" (in LA), "Central African Republic". "California Association of Realtors ", and over 180 other things.

I've audited locations with certified MS that don't even use the words non-conformity, corrective action, CAR, PAR, or preventive action and everything was fine and dandy, no problem.
 
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