Difficulties with Process Approach - Defining 'Effectiveness'

[venkat]

Once the document is completed and approved by the auditors I would suggest to post in this forum for the benefit of the members

 

[Henrique Dasilva]

Good idea, Venkat. I will do that even if it takes a couple of months (to be approved by the auditors)!

 

[Marc]

Also See...

Related Threads:

ISO 9001:2000 Process Approach - What is it? Is it 'Real'?
The Process Approach: Is a process more than a procedure with a flowchart?
'Process Approach' to ISO 9000 Internal Audits - Identify an 'owner' for each process
Process Approach - Take 2 - Process Management vs. Function Management

 

[Andrei Viorel - 2009]

Our documentation it is structured as follows:

Level 1. Main Processes
Level 2. Sub Processes
Level 3. Working instructions and forms

Levels 1 and 2 contain flow charts, sometime combined with text description.

Level 3 contains details for normal operating.

vio

 

[xuanyuanjian]

I suggest flow charts everywhere you can. Especially level 2's. Most larger companies have problems doing some lower level documents in flow charts such as work instructions and/or travelers because their MRP/ERP systems print them.

Almost any procedure can be, and should be, flow charted. Text documents are to be avoided at almost any cost.

At Harley we flow charted just about everything except the 'quality' manual and many assembly and other various documents which the MRP software spits out. My smaller clients do the same.

The problem at many companies is as you get down to the level of assembly / work instructions (in addition to any MRP/ERP systems problems) is the detail level necessary. It becomes harder (with some processes) to use flow charts because of detail issues.

David, you've been visiting the forums long enough to see my extreme Pro-Flow Chart bias. Not to mention my Flow Chart rants.

There are numerous examples in my Implementing ISO Guide (unabashed promo).

At the least, all level 2 'procedures' should be flow charted.

-> I haven't had a client use text level 2's since 1995.

This means I haven't had a client which used text documents as level 2's since 1995. They have all exclusively used flow charts.

-> Do you mean text only L2 procedures?

I'm not sure what you mean here - but if you are saying "Yes - use text only documents for level 2's", the answer is NO. Use Flow Charts for ALL level 2's and the majority of level 3's.

could you tell me the means of "L2"?thanks!

 

[AndyN]

could you tell me the means of "L2"?thanks!

It's referring to the 'levels' of documentation in a QMS (pyramid) L2 = procedures, L3 = instructions etc.

 

[tkshah]

Hi all,

I am looking for more clarification on clause 7 product realization. My department is basically handling sales and marketing division. Will this clause is applicable or can we treat it as exclusion??

do reply me urgently..

 

[Stijloor]

Hi all,

I am looking for more clarification on clause 7 product realization. My department is basically handling sales and marketing division. Will this clause is applicable or can we treat it as exclusion??

do reply me urgently..

Welcome to The Cove Forums!

The clause that applies to you is 7.2 Customer-related processes and can not be excluded.

Tell us more about your organization. What does the scope of certification include?

Stijloor.

 

[tkshah]

Thnks for replying..
Basically we are Information and communication Technology (ICT) company. I belong to Business Development department which is the front face to all our customers. We offer a wide range of solutions from software development to network managment, Data server, FMS services.

being into Business Develpoment, we do not have any ownership of product development. It belongs to other departments which are part of my company. Same way we have project implementaion and management team separately for excecuting orders/projects which customers award us.

In this whole case, Will this clause is applicable? I m really confused

 

[AndyN]

being into Business Develpoment, we do not have any ownership of product development. It belongs to other departments which are part of my company.

When you say you have no ownership of product development does this mean the customer has an interface with the developers directly? Don't you, in Business Development, agree with customers on technical specs or delivery timeframes? Or is this handled directly with the developers? Who handles the reviews of customer requirements to ensure that there are sufficient resources to enable them to be met? Business Development or the developers? Who agrees with the customer that a commitment to a project can be made?

If you are looking at this as a department, then you might want to rethink '7.2' as a process. Often (Business development) organizations make commitments to customers (sales, if you prefer) that, once agreed upon, can't be met without stretching the development organization so that other projects are affected, overtime has to be worked or work isn't completed at all, or on time! Ask your development management if the sales process is very effective sometime!