Dimensioning Help GD&T

J

jshipley

#1
Hello,

I was hoping thier might be some experts out there that might be able to help me out. I am attaching a power point presentation with the specific dimension I am working on...please see the attachment for more detail. I am pretty sure I know the answer...but would definetly appreciate some concurrence from those of you who are probably a lot wiser than myself!!

Thanks in advance for the help!!
 

Attachments

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Miner

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#2
The 3.30 is a basic dimension to the bottom of the feature. The "tolerance" is the feature frame immediately below this, which is read as Profile of a surface tolerance = 0.8 to Datum E. 0.8 is the total tolerance band.
 
E

egarry

#3
:bigwave:Ok,
I see the tolerance as the profile of 0.8mm to datum -E-. The 3.3mm dimension is the basic dimension for the depth of the step down. If you have any additional questions, you can email me thru the cove.
 
J

jshipley

#4
OK, let me add some information and see if you guys think this changes things? There is additional information that requires the measurement be taken from the top of the metal ring (shown in slide 2 and molded into the part).

Question if I am required to do that can I include stack-ups from the other profile call outs?

E.G. Profile of 1.0mm to E - - and Slide to Profile 0.4mm to A.

Basically, I am asking if Datum E was at -0.5mm, then additionally the Profile of 0.8mm was at min condition of -0.04mm, and finally the ring was at max condition of +0.02mm. Could I stack them up to have +/- 1.1mm? Or worst case not using the profile of the ring have a +/-0.9mm?

Thanks
 
J

jshipley

#5
One last question as well - since the 3.30mm is a basic dimension do I have to go by the profile call-out for the tolerance or can I go back to the "Basic Tolerancing" section on the print for the spec. (Basic Tolerancing is not shown on the attachment)
 

Miner

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Admin
#6
One last question as well - since the 3.30mm is a basic dimension do I have to go by the profile call-out for the tolerance or can I go back to the "Basic Tolerancing" section on the print for the spec. (Basic Tolerancing is not shown on the attachment)
You have to go by the Profile callout. Basic dimensions have no tolerance.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#7
OK, let me add some information and see if you guys think this changes things? There is additional information that requires the measurement be taken from the top of the metal ring (shown in slide 2 and molded into the part).

Question if I am required to do that can I include stack-ups from the other profile call outs?

E.G. Profile of 1.0mm to E - - and Slide to Profile 0.4mm to A.

Basically, I am asking if Datum E was at -0.5mm, then additionally the Profile of 0.8mm was at min condition of -0.04mm, and finally the ring was at max condition of +0.02mm. Could I stack them up to have +/- 1.1mm? Or worst case not using the profile of the ring have a +/-0.9mm?

Thanks
No you cannot stackup these tolerances. Each profile must be measured independent of the other and directly to the referenced datum.

There are 14 datum targets mentioned. Do these define Datum A or Datum E? If they define Datum E, you must fixture your part on a fixture that supports the 14 datum targets only, then measure directly to the feature botom from these datum targets. If the datum target do not apply to Datum E, you must fixture your part on a ring that contacts the entire surface of Datum E, but is not influenced by any other feature, then measure directly to the feature bottom from this fixture.
 
J

jigsaw-123

#8
No you cannot stackup these tolerances. Each profile must be measured independent of the other and directly to the referenced datum.

There are 14 datum targets mentioned. Do these define Datum A or Datum E? If they define Datum E, you must fixture your part on a fixture that supports the 14 datum targets only, then measure directly to the feature botom from these datum targets. If the datum target do not apply to Datum E, you must fixture your part on a ring that contacts the entire surface of Datum E, but is not influenced by any other feature, then measure directly to the feature bottom from this fixture.
I agree. This should be plain and simple. Basic dimesnion has nothing to do with the feature control frame below it. No tolerance for Basic Dimensions.

The feature control frame is controlling the surface within 0.8mm from the datum E. Rest the part on datum E (all datum E targets) and measure the surface. It should be within +/- 0.4 from nominal (From CAD).
 
D

David DeLong

#9
Each profile of a surface is a range of a bilateral tolerance and is applied independently from datum E.

There is a problem though.

The profile of a surface to itself is wrong. It should have said that it was a flatness callout to become datum E as long as surface datum E is a single plane.

Here is what I think the Designer is trying to do though. The datum targets create datum E and not the surface. Once set up on the datum targets, the surface is a range of a bilateral tolerance of 1 mm or +/- 0.5. This is not to the ASME Y14.5M-94 standard and is my best second guess of the Designer's mind.

One can have a profile of a surface when there are multiple surfaces sharing the same plane but when there is only one surface, the requirement should have been flatness.
 

Miner

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#10
You are close David, but not quite there. You are correct that the designer was probably trying to qualify Datum E, and he/she should have used a Flatness callout instead of a Profile. However, that flatness would have been two parallel planes 0.4 apart not 1.0. See page 2 Section F-F

The 1.0 Profile on page 1 Details D & E applies to the material in which the ring is molded. The 1.4 Profile applies to the 0.70 step, and the 0.8 Profile applies to the 0.40 step in Detail D on page 1.

The OP asked about the 3.30 dimension to the bottom of a groove that is controlled by the 0.8 Profile. All of these Profiles tie back to the (14) Datum E targets that we presume lie in a plane. If they do not lie in a plane, the designer was correct in using a Profile.
 
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