DIS 9001:2000 a step backward?

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#1
From: ISO Standards Discussion <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:03:16 -0600
Subject: Re: IMHO DIS a step backward /Russo

From: "C.W. Russ Russo" <[email protected]>

>From: Len Litvan <[email protected]>
>
>In a comment related to follow up audits, Dennis Arter wrote;" I have
>been pushing to get this *requirement* removed for some time now. It is
>much too restrictive and costly."
>and Len Litvan commented favorably
>"Thanks for your effort to remove mandatory follow up audits. With a
>gazillion ways to ensure that corrective actions are implemented and
>effective, it was presumptuous of the writers to require follow up audits."

Sorry, Gentlemen, but unhappily the new DIS version has reestablished the requirement for follow up audits within the clause on internal audits. This along with other significant changes between the CD-2 and DIS are IMHO backward steps for ISO. Others include:

1. the removal of most references to "customer" throughout the standard.

2. the removal of the language "product and/or service" in favor of continuing a definition of a service as a product. This continues the misconception that ISO is not applicable to service organizations.

3. the significant reductions in clause 8 that effectively eliminates the push toward fact-based decision making.

4. reinserted the practice of making parenthetical reference to the records clause when mandating a record. IMHO this language encourages practitioners to rely on mandated records rather than determining which records are appropriate for the organization's needs.

5. Also, the writers have not cleaned up the distinction between a record and document. And in fact have added a sentence that tells companies (5.5.6) "Documents defined as quality records shall be controlled." INHO this approach will cause considerable confusion among practitioners.

Some good things -- among others -- that have happened are:

1. elimination of the term "system level procedure"

2. elimination of specific requirements for many procedures.

3. elimination of reference to "ethics" not because that isn't a good idea, but because it was so ill-defined.

C.W. Russ Russo
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
J

Jase Eyre

#2
CW/Len(?)

I take your point about the DIS, it is still somewhat neglectful of the service industries in both language and emphasis (calibration?, yeah, right), and the definition of a "service" as "...an intangible product" is stretching a long bow for mine (even though strictly speaking, it is correct).

Even so, I can't find any reference to follow-up audits in the DIS version published in Australasia (AS/NZS ISO 9001(Int):2000 - we live in the future, you see). And I quote (forgive)...

"8.2.2 Internal audit
The organisation shall conduct periodic internal audits to determine whether the quality management system
(a) conforms to the requirements of this International Standard;
(b) has been effectively implemented and maintained.
The organisation shall plan the audit program taking into consideration the status and importance of the activities and areas to be audited as well as the results of previous audits. The audit scope, frequency and methodologies shall be defined. Audits shall be conducted by personnel other than those who performed the activity being audited.
A documented procedure shall include the responsibilites and requirements for conducting audits, ensuring their independence, recording results and reporting to management.
Management shall take timely corrective action on deficiencies found during the audit.
Follow-up actions shall include the verification of the implementation of corrective action, and the reporting of verification results.
NOTE: see ISO 10011 for guidance."

No reference there to compulsory follow-up audits. Seems to me the Org is given carte blanche to decide what should be audited and how, so long as it fits in with their system requirements, is recorded and acted on...

But yeah, the document/record distinction gives me the s#!ts. Solution? I'm going to ignore it.

FYI, the vocab given in AS/NZS ISO 9000(Int):2000 defines document as: "information and its support medium" and record as a "document stating results achieved or evidence of activities performed". Given that I don't want my quality system creaking under the weight of superfluous documentation, the only 'documents' I'll be using will be records anyway.

Well, apart from the 6 'documented procedures' required.

Yup, the DIS still has its faults, but I think that its arrangement is superior and its requirements less prescriptive.

Reminds me of those weightless ants in the Simpsons when Homer breaks their glass case in the space shuttle:
"Freedom, horrible freedom!"
they cry...

J.



------------------
JasE
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B The 25-04-2000 Vote - Did the vote about DIS ISO 9001:2000 obtained 75% of yes? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
Marc Implement to the DIS of ISO 9001:2000 now? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
Marc ISO Releases DIS Versions of ISO 9001 Year 2000 Revisions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 0
Marc Validation Program for ISO/DIS 9001:2000 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 0
K ISO DIS 9001:2000 - Interim Standard ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 20
K ISO 9001:2000 DIS? One day left for delivery of DIS. Will it be on time? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
P ISO/DIS 9001:2015 Vs ISO 9001:2008 in a Food Company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
V DIS Inspect software for our CMM Operations - Seeking Contact Information Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 3
T CEN/TS 12390-9, ISO-DIS 4846, CEN/TR 15177 Information needed Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
G ISO/DIS 14045 - Anyone have an early draft copy? Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
R ISO/DIS 9004 Managing for the sustained success of an organization ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
D Looking for the meaning of DIS General Auditing Discussions 12
R Clarification on WORK ENVIRONMENT (Cl. 6.4 in the 2008 DIS) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
Marc Adobe's PDF Format Is Now ISO 32000 DIS Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
W New draft: ISO/DIS 27799: Health Informatics - Security Management in Health Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
Govind ISO/DIS 17021 vs. Guide 62 and 66 - What are the differences and comparisons? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 15
Jen Kirley The New Dis-Service Economy Service Industry Specific Topics 5
S DIS ISO 14001 Vote and TC207 SC1 Meeting 1-3 March 2004 (Paris) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 23
Claes Gefvenberg ISO 14001:2004 DIS (Final Draft) due March 2004 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 52
T TS DIS 16949:1999 & Customer Requirements Customer and Company Specific Requirements 2
L ISO/DIS TS16949:2002 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
L Customer Related standards in ISO/DIS 9000:2000 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
Marc Now Playing: Auditing to the DIS (For Money...) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
J How many secondary/supporting documents will be associated with the new DIS version? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
R Has anyone received the ASQ publication of the DIS for ISO9001:2000? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
Marc ISO/DIS 10015 Guidelines for Training Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
B Mold Making Area Mangement Dis-agreement QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 8
M Case study help as per ISO 9001: 2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
M Case study solution help required as per ISO 9001 : 2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 0
A Refusal to discuss ISO 9001 obligations... what to do? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
B Can we be ISO 9001 certified without a physical office? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
S Documenting Design Verification Test Results (ISO 9001) Design and Development of Products and Processes 1
L Combining 3 ISO 9001 registrations into 1 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
BeaBea ISO 9001 Customer Feedback Methods - What has worked for your company? Service Industry Specific Topics 16
G New to ISO 9001 - Where to begin? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
BeaBea Interesting Discussion Where Does Marketing/ Advertisement of Products fit in to ISO 9001? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 35
F Logistics and IT clauses in ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
Q Automation in manufacturing - Print Shop ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
V Quality Objectives - ISO 9001 2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
Gun46 ISO 9001 : 2015 Lead Auditor Exam General Auditing Discussions 5
Q ISO 9001:2015 man days for surveillance audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
Q To set frequency to review documents in ISO 9001 7.5? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 13
Mr Roo ISO 9001 - 7.1.3 Infrastructure - questions concerning evidence ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
D ISO 9001 & AS9100 Certificate issued by a consultant for a Distributor Registrars and Notified Bodies 11
Q ISO 9001 - 8.5.3 Overlapping with 8.4 and 8.5.4? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
D ISO 9001:2015 4.3 Determining the Scope of the QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
I ISO 9001:2015 Section 9.3.2 C1 "customer satisfaction and feedback from relevant interested parties" ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
I ISO-9001:2015 and "Relevant Parties" Management Review Meetings and related Processes 2
A Design process goal for ISO 9001 Manufacturing and Related Processes 23
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom