Discontinuing ISO 9001 certification

[ScottK]

Maybe, but we are finding this not to be the case. Our customers continue to audit us regardless, so it makes better sense for us not to bother. We maintain 2008 compliance only, and would never consider 2015 version at this point.

I have seen that maintaining ISO registration may or may not reduce customer audits... it all depends on your customer base and how critical your product is to the customer's product. If you are a critical supplier then they will audit regardless, and still require in quality agreements that you maintain some sort of registration via an accredited body.

As far as the OP... I don't know what industry you're in, but I would have a close look at any quality agreements you have with customers before dropping it. I would bet my life savings that if you do business with drug or device customers and you have quality agreements there will be language in them about maintaining registration to a recognized standard.

 

[Marc]

<snip> The real problem comes when people become lax and say "Well, now that we don't have an auditor coming in looking over our shoulder, what's the problem if we don't do what the standard says to the letter?". So now, you have people who don't take compliance seriously because there's no "bite" in the "bark". <snip>

My opinion - If a company needs an outside audit to ensure employees do what their systems require, there is a big problem. It has nothing to do with what the standard requires. If the company has set up compliant systems, all any employee should have to know is their job requirements and that they MUST follow their job requirements, procedures relevant to them and such.

Maybe, but we are finding this not to be the case. Our customers continue to audit us regardless, so it makes better sense for us not to bother. We maintain 2008 compliance only, and would never consider 2015 version at this point.

I pretty much see it as you say. I know there are companies that will not maintain their systems. They are what I call "Bad Personality" companies. "Good Companies" implement a system (or, rather, systems) and internally enforce compliance to / with their systems. My opinion is that is all a company should need. Then again, my biggest "indicator" is "Let me see your complaints, nonconformance (internal and external), and returns data."

When I did implementations, I did check a company out and refused some that I felt were "bad personality" companies.

 

[Golfman25]

I know there's a lot of talk, consideration and action about achieving or dropping ISO9001 certification. Until my current position, I've always been in certified companies. My current company is compliant based on our sole customer (government) requirement. To add a little more into the mix, we're only required to be compliant to ISO-9001:2008. While some might say "Great! Now we can save the bucks!" The real problem comes when people become lax and say "Well, now that we don't have an auditor coming in looking over our shoulder, what's the problem if we don't do what the standard says to the letter?". So now, you have people who don't take compliance seriously because there's no "bite" in the "bark". Now that I'm in a compliant company, I'd MUCH rather be certified.

That's a lot of the problem -- having to comply "to the letter." Especially for smaller companies. A lot of that is make work. Sometimes close enough is enough.

We let our certificate lapse due to several factors and the world did not end. We then picked up 2015 from the beginning without incident. Everyone had a warm fuzzy feeling but the fact is the transition between the lapse and the new standard was hardly noticeable.

 

[AndyN]

That's a lot of the problem -- having to comply "to the letter." Especially for smaller companies. A lot of that is make work. Sometimes close enough is enough.

In that case, there's something wrong with the approach. I've yet to find an effective approach which "made work", rather it removed unnecessary and (often costly) unplanned work (failures) but management were too blinded by their "success" to see it... I've encountered too many small businesses where entrepreneurs seem to measure success by how far they've come, rather than how much they need to improve. Business is like a race. You win by being in front of the competition, not by the distance you've covered.

 

[Marc]

Well, to some degree, Andy. I have seen a number of companies, especially small companies, where registration was just an added cost and a loss of at least a day a year (usually a few more days) of a lot of work not done as a registrar is auditing. Wasted time. Registration did not affect nonconformance events or improvement aspects.

I've encountered too many small businesses where entrepreneurs seem to measure success by how far they've come, rather than how much they need to improve.

I rarely saw that. Quite the opposite. "How far they've come" IS a "measurable", but the important measurements are growth and profit.

Then again, I don't doubt many "entrepreneurs" do not have any or much business experience. Even there, though, anyone starting a business has to learn "business 101". That said, I don't see ISO 9001, or any other standard, as a way to learn business "best practices".

I have also worked with some small companies which truly did not WANT to expand. They liked the company as it was/is - Small, family oriented, happy with no plans to expand. One of the companies has been in business since the 1940's and the "newest" employee had been hired something like 10 years ago. Want to talk about a great place to work... Plus - Singe day shift, and quitting time was just that (never any overtime, so employees had "family time").

 

[Golfman25]

In that case, there's something wrong with the approach. I've yet to find an effective approach which "made work", rather it removed unnecessary and (often costly) unplanned work (failures) but management were too blinded by their "success" to see it... I've encountered too many small businesses where entrepreneurs seem to measure success by how far they've come, rather than how much they need to improve. Business is like a race. You win by being in front of the competition, not by the distance you've covered.

When you get a NC because a FEMA or control plan form was filled out "wrong" (in TS) even though it's been working well since the invention of dirt is make work and useless.