Discussion: The RAB (Registrar Accreditation Board)


Super Moderator
The RAB itself!

RANDY: Why don't we start a thread on the RAB iself?

ANSWER: Good idea Randy, why don't you start it off?

RANDY: Okie, dokie, not a problem.

Here's are questions that I have asked the RAB on the phone and by email (to more than one person by the way).
1. Why should I tell people to seek auditor certification thru the RAB instead of IRCA or SCC or anyone else? My answer...(0, zero, nada, nothing, nichts, zilch).

Another question...
2. If serving as a Witness Auditor is a duty of a registered Lead Auditor, why doesn't the time that is served in that capacity count towards maintenance of that credential? If you want the answer to that either stand in line with me or refer to #1 above.

How about these.....
3. If I am in possession of a document from one of your representatives stating that I have met all of my recertification requirements over that last 3 years, why are you just now trying to verify my materials?

4. Why was I told 6 months prior to my recertification that I had fulfilled ALL of my recertification requirements and only had to submit my fees for the following year, and now find out after the fact that you may not renew me?

5. Who's fault is it that I defered performing audits to train future auditors under the belief that I had fulfilled my requirements?

This is a good one too...
6. Why does IRCA recognize audits performed as an individual and the RAB require at least 2 people to be on a Team to have an acceptable audit?

The final was a doozie...
7. Why doesn't the RAB support its own auditor certification program and only hire RAB auditors to perform its audits of training organizations and registrars?

Guess what guys? I haven't gotten a response to any of them yet!

It seems that with personnel turnover (rivaling ENRON it seems) and all the other issues they deal with I'm just a voice in the wilderness.

Anybody else have similar issues or want to jump in?
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Fully vaccinated are you?
Can anyone give a list of dependencies? Like the RAB is associated to the ASQ by ......

I don't think the RAB has ever been accused of Rapid Response, has it?


Quite Involved in Discussions
I had this on file but do not know where it came from:
RAB-accreditation body of Quality and Environmental System Registrars (jointly with ANSI), accreditation of auditor course training providers (jointly with ANSI) and certification of auditors. RAB was established by the ASQ in 1989. Legal status is an affiliate of ASQ.

Aaron Lupo

I can honestly say i have not really had any major problems with the RAB. I have never had any paper work rejected.

Why RAB and not SCC or IRCA IMHO the RAB is more widely recognized.

They have never rejected any witness audits I have submitted for my recertification.

If you have the letter that states you acheived the requirements for recertification send it to them. That should take care of #3 and #4 on your list. #5 should be a mute point with the letter.

RAB has never rejected any audits I have done for maintaining my credentials just becuase they were done alone. I know you need to complete X amount of audits as the lead with at least one other person on the team and be on site at least 2 days for it to count towards your lead certification.

#7 I am not sure what you are asking.

In my experiences with the RAB I will admit they have not always been fast but they have responded to me with in a day or so if they were unable to anwser me at the time. JMHO


Super Moderator
Let me put it this way.....

There has been no attempt to verify the audit logs I turned in for 2000 & 2001 until now. The organization that I performed many of the audits for no longer exists and many of the people needed to verify are out of touch (2 I know of are in IRAQ and another in Qatar). The RAB assured me, as of October 2002, that I had successfully met all of my 3 year recert requirements and only had to submit the fee (I have a copy of the email). I subsequently refrained from performing additional audits in lieu of performing training classes instead. I have in the last few days been informed that I may not have enough audit time and the time spent as a witness auditor does not count. Now answer this question....Should my fanny be a little chapped or not?

The other question I have is....Why should I or any other registered Lead serve as a witness auditor for anyone else (other than for the $)?


Trusted Information Resource
Is it possible that the differences you two have seen is due to the fact that Randy is dealing with the EMS auditor certification board and ISO GUY is dealing with the QMS board? At least that's who I assume you're dealing with based on other posts by each of you. I've never had any real issues with them (QMS) either. Of course, you would think that they would be consistent in their administration of the rules... :bonk:

To answer your other questions:
  • No, your fanny should not be a little chapped. It should be a lot chapped.
  • You should serve as a witness auditor in order to better your fellow man and further the causes of improved auditing, peace, justice, and the American way. :D OK, what I really meant to say was just for the $$. :p

Aaron Lupo

Originally posted by Marc
A week.
I would say a week is fair as well, but I would also say it depends on what type of information you are looking for. In my experiences with the RAB it has never taken longer than a week for them to get back to me.

I think you also need to look at other factors that may cause them (or any company for that matter) to take longer getting back with you. How did you treat the person you spoke with, if you were nasty with them it is just human nature that they will put your request low on the list, now on the other hand if you are nice they may push it for you. Now I am not saying this is what happened in Randys case, maybe he spoke with a newer employee, or a lazy one. Not saying the RAB is good or bad just that I personally have not had a problem with them.


Super Moderator
Ask 'em why should RAB auditor certification be sought after instead of IRCA and see how long the response takes.;)

I've had a couple of pretty nice conversations all the way up to Cindy Miller that were nearly circular in nature. Right now the RAB is going to review the Witness Auditor issue and make a decision (about the same time that Lucifer gets frostbite probably) as to whether or not LA's that perform that function (Witness Auditor) can count the time as Lead time on audit logs (DUH!)

The last question I asked (May 29th) was:"If only LA"s can do it, why isn't it Lead time?. The immediate answer I got was "Because you didn't do the opening or closing meeting and write the report.

Opening and closing meeting? You mean go thru the prepared checklist of items to cover and maybe use6.5.1 & the associated practical help box of ISO 19011:2000 and 6.5.7 of ISO 19011:2000?.....gaoaoaolyyyyyyyyyy! Duh.

The audit report? Do you mean go to 6.6.1 of ISO 19011:2000 and follow the guidance of preparing the report? Gorsh, I'm just not that familiar with that task.

I really wasn't that nasty with my responses but give me a break (and everybody else too)!!! I also sur;prised them with the 19K11 stuff.

This whole thing is silly and if they had been on the ball the past 2-3 years this wouldn't be happening. They need to do some Preventive Action" and also start becoming concerned with customer satisfaction and meeting expectations.
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