Definition Disposition Definition - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence?

Mezzaluna

Registered Visitor
#1
Hi All,
I'm searching for a definition of the term "Disposition" in ISO. I have had a stack of NCR's returned from our Client because "The NCR do not identify a suitable disposition to prevent re-occurrence."

To my mind, dispositon has always been what you will do with the product, i.e. Rework, Repair, Regrade, Scrap.

I think HE thinks disposition means "means of prevention of recurrence"

I can't discuss this with him as he is off work.

Any suggestions on the definition? I got full access to ISO but can't find one. If I point him to an ISO definition then the can't argue.
Thanks in advance,

Mezz.
 
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J

Jeff Frost

#2
Re: Disposition definition desparation

Actually your customers use of the term "disposition" seems to be in error. Disposition typically is defined, by most organizations, as an instruction that determines how a nonconforming material will be used (reworked, use-as-is, scrap). In the ISO 9000 Introduction and Support Package, document # N526, Guidance on the Terminology used in ISO 9001 and ISO 9004 defines disposition as action of dealing with things in a particular way.

What he is realy saying is that your corrective action has not identified the true root cause which must be corrected to prevent re-occurrence of the nonconformity. Most customers would not accept any root cause or corrective action that hints of a training issue. When you state training is the cause or that retraining will correct the nonconformity you are saying that the current trainer or training process is not effective and this nonconformity will reoccur.

Revisit your corrective action and dig a little deeper until you find the true root cause what will correct the nonconformity and the changes to be made will prevent re-occurrence of this nonconformity and nonconformity on other product produced by the process.
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

Hi All,
I'm searching for a definition of the term "Disposition" in ISO. I have had a stack of NCR's returned from our Client because "The NCR do not identify a suitable disposition to prevent re-occurrence."

To my mind, dispositon has always been what you will do with the product, i.e. Rework, Repair, Regrade, Scrap.

I think HE thinks disposition means "means of prevention of recurrence"

I can't discuss this with him as he is off work.

Any suggestions on the definition? I got full access to ISO but can't find one. If I point him to an ISO definition then the can't argue.
Thanks in advance,

Mezz.
I believe that your client did use the term "disposition" correctly.

Although we in the quality field usually think of disposition as the determination if a product is scrap or not, that certainly is not the only case for it.

It looks like he was talking about dispositioning (or resolving) the NCR. He felt that you did not resolve the NCR in an effective manner that would prevent recurrence.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

I believe that your client did use the term "disposition" correctly.

Although we in the quality field usually think of disposition as the determination if a product is scrap or not, that certainly is not the only case for it.

It looks like he was talking about dispositioning (or resolving) the NCR. He felt that you did not resolve the NCR in an effective manner that would prevent recurrence.
I'll have to side with our half moon friend :)D) , here. It appears the customer has picked up on the word and assigned another meaning to it.

Disposition is about arrangement so when the product is found to be non-conforming the decision has to be taken on the 'action of dealing with things in a particular way' (or disposition) - i.e. scrap, rework, use under concession etc. all alternatives routes.

Now where the customer is right is where, having taken disposition action with nonconforming product as above they may expect you to apply the requirements of clause 8.5.2 and carry out corrective action including action to prevent recurrence of the nonconformity by eliminating the cause.

So in summary the disposition doesn't cover action to prevent recurrence but the customer may want this from you anyway. See various threads on 8d for example.
 
D

Duke Okes

#6
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

If we want to know what the client/customer meant we should probably ask him/her. All else is conjecture.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#7
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

Hi All,
I'm searching for a definition of the term "Disposition" in ISO. I have had a stack of NCR's returned from our Client because "The NCR do not identify a suitable disposition to prevent re-occurrence."

To my mind, dispositon has always been what you will do with the product, i.e. Rework, Repair, Regrade, Scrap.

I think HE thinks disposition means "means of prevention of recurrence"

I can't discuss this with him as he is off work.

Any suggestions on the definition? I got full access to ISO but can't find one. If I point him to an ISO definition then the can't argue.
Thanks in advance,

Mezz.
I think you are correct. But, either way, I don't think your customer was asking you for a lesson in ISO definitions. He is focused on product issues. So, why not give him both things and be sure you covered it. Give him a corrective action that analyses the issues, root causes and proposes solutions that will prevent recurrance...AND...give them an answer as to how you will respond to whatever product has been identified, waiting for you to "disposition" it. In other words, address clause 8.3 and cl 8.5.2.
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

I'll have to side with our half moon friend :)D) , here. It appears the customer has picked up on the word and assigned another meaning to it.

Disposition is about arrangement so when the product is found to be non-conforming the decision has to be taken on the 'action of dealing with things in a particular way' (or disposition) - i.e. scrap, rework, use under concession etc. all alternatives routes.

Now where the customer is right is where, having taken disposition action with nonconforming product as above they may expect you to apply the requirements of clause 8.5.2 and carry out corrective action including action to prevent recurrence of the nonconformity by eliminating the cause.

So in summary the disposition doesn't cover action to prevent recurrence but the customer may want this from you anyway. See various threads on 8d for example.
The following definition is from www.dictionary.com

disposition:

"noun
1. the predominant or prevailing tendency of one's spirits; natural mental and emotional outlook or mood; characteristic attitude: a girl with a pleasant disposition.
2. state of mind regarding something; inclination: a disposition to gamble.
3. physical inclination or tendency: the disposition of ice to melt when heated.
4. arrangement or placing, as of troops or buildings.
5. final settlement of a matter.
6. bestowal, as by gift or sale.
7. power to dispose of a thing; control: funds at one's disposition.
8. regulation; management; dispensation: the disposition of god."

Pay particular attention to #5.

So your saying that you cannot call the final settlement of a nonconformance a disposition?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

The following definition is from www.dictionary.com

disposition:

"noun
1.
the predominant or prevailing tendency of one's spirits; natural mental and emotional outlook or mood; characteristic attitude: a girl with a pleasant disposition.
2.
state of mind regarding something; inclination: a disposition to gamble.
3.
physical inclination or tendency: the disposition of ice to melt when heated.
4.
arrangement or placing, as of troops or buildings.
5.
final settlement of a matter.
6.
bestowal, as by gift or sale.
7.
power to dispose of a thing; control: funds at one's disposition.
8.
regulation; management; dispensation: the disposition of god."

Pay particular attention to #5.

So your saying that you cannot call the final settlement of a nonconformance a disposition?
It's usually not helpful to bring dictionaries into a discussion of jargon. Regardless of precise denotation, most people in our business understand "disposition" in the sense of what's done with nonconforming material.

Having said that, I think a couple of things seem clear: (a) the OP should be careful about semantic pedantry when he's dealing with a customer who's returned a STACK of NCRs and (b) he should consider whether the fact that there is a STACK might have something to do with the customer's misgivings regarding his proposed corrective actions.
 
J

JaneB

#10
Re: Disposition Definition Desparation - Disposition means Prevention of Recurrence

It's usually not helpful to bring dictionaries into a discussion of jargon. Regardless of precise denotation, most people in our business understand "disposition" in the sense of what's done with nonconforming material.

Having said that, I think a couple of things seem clear: (a) the OP should be careful about semantic pedantry when he's dealing with a customer who's returned a STACK of NCRs and (b) he should consider whether the fact that there is a STACK might have something to do with the customer's misgivings regarding his proposed corrective actions.
Good advice on all counts. :applause:
 
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