Distance between two holes tolerance

J

jleond

#1
Good morning,

I need to tolerance the 3D distance between the center of two holes, both have a true position tolerance of 1.5, What should be the distance tolernce between them, +/-1.5 or +/-3?:confused:
 
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A

andygr

#2
If you are going to set a true position for each hole then the distance will not be tolleranced but rather be basic.
Is it just a matter of knowing the seperation and the max allowable based on the holes individual TP or are you looking to restrict it even further?
 
J

jleond

#3
If you are going to set a true position for each hole then the distance will not be tolleranced but rather be basic.
Is it just a matter of knowing the seperation and the max allowable based on the holes individual TP or are you looking to restrict it even further?
Thanks Andygr, my customer just wants to know how much is allowable for the holes to be closer or farther between them. The 1.5 true position is already stated on the part print.
 
D

Duke Okes

#4
I'm not a GD&T expert but it would appear to me that if you have already toleranced the position of each hole, then variation in the distance between them is already set by that. Each hole can be off a maximum of a certain amount in a particular direction, and you can total that variation to come up with the overall distance tolerance.

However, you might also want to think about it from a statistically based tolerance stackup perspective. What is the probability of being off by a certain amount for each hole, and how does that stack up. To me it would not simply be the mathematical sum of the two tolerances, but some amount less.
 
D

David DeLong

#5
If your positional tolerance is a diametrical tolerance zone of 1.5 mm in a RFS mode (no circle M in the feature control frame), it means that the hole can shift off theoretical centres (true position) no more than 0.75 mm. The theoretical locations of each hole must be shown in a basic dimension.

Each hole can shift towards the other hole 0.75 mm or a combined value of 1.5 mm and away from each of 0.75 mm or combined value of 1.5 mm.

Looks like you have a +/- 1.5 mm tolerance between holes.
 
G

Gofar

#6
In the UK, BSI publishes BS 8888 "Technical product specification" and, more importantly for me, two useful guides.

PP 8888-1 is a guide to the standard aimed at schools and colleges. It costs £25 or 5 copies for £75.

PP 8888-2 is aimed at further and higher education. Although it costs a faily steep £100, I find it very useful. It runs to about 260 pages and it would be inappropriate to paste the whole thing here, but maybe this short extract will be acceptable. It addresses your question and doesn't contradict the preious responses.

Perhaps your local standards body has an equivalent document.
 

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J

jleond

#7
If your positional tolerance is a diametrical tolerance zone of 1.5 mm in a RFS mode (no circle M in the feature control frame), it means that the hole can shift off theoretical centres (true position) no more than 0.75 mm. The theoretical locations of each hole must be shown in a basic dimension.

Each hole can shift towards the other hole 0.75 mm or a combined value of 1.5 mm and away from each of 0.75 mm or combined value of 1.5 mm.

Looks like you have a +/- 1.5 mm tolerance between holes.
That´s what I was thinking too, thanks!

In the UK, BSI publishes BS 8888 "Technical product specification" and, more importantly for me, two useful guides.

PP 8888-1 is a guide to the standard aimed at schools and colleges. It costs £25 or 5 copies for £75.

PP 8888-2 is aimed at further and higher education. Although it costs a faily steep £100, I find it very useful. It runs to about 260 pages and it would be inappropriate to paste the whole thing here, but maybe this short extract will be acceptable. It addresses your question and doesn't contradict the preious responses.

Perhaps your local standards body has an equivalent document.
This is great info, I will check the Geom. Prod. Spec and Y14.5M std to if I can find something extra, thanks for the info.
 
M

MIREGMGR

#8
Good morning,

I need to tolerance the 3D distance between the center of two holes, both have a true position tolerance of 1.5, What should be the distance tolernce between them, +/-1.5 or +/-3?:confused:
Not to open a can of worms, but is there a specific need for the "3D" statement?

A full 3D relationship statement for two non-zero-length (i.e. real, non-theoretical) holes requires consideration of the starting points not being in the same plane, and axis angle comparison from those starting points.
 
J

jleond

#9
Not to open a can of worms, but is there a specific need for the "3D" statement?

A full 3D relationship statement for two non-zero-length (i.e. real, non-theoretical) holes requires consideration of the starting points not being in the same plane, and axis angle comparison from those starting points.
I said 3D because the CMM software can calculate the distance in 2D (1 axis) or 3D, in this case the holes lie on the same plane (Y) but haved different X and Z coordinates, just wanted to know how to give a correct tolerance to the distance.
 
M

mboucher

#10
What Miremgr is referring to is that 3d includes the angle of the line that is drawn from one point to the other so bear that in mind when you look at the 3d distance output. If the diameters are on the same plane and measured at the same depth, providing you do not have automatic projection on, you should be okay but variations will appear if you measure at different depths. One way to avoid this is to project the diameters to the surface they are measured on before you ask for the distance.

Mark Boucher
 
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