Do all levels of a PPAP require a GRR study? And is the new PPAP out yet?

[dbulak]

Do all levels of a PPAP require a GRR study? And, is the new PPAP out?

 

[D.Scott]

The new PPAP is not out yet. We are still using the 3rd edition.

All levels of PPAP require a GR&R study. The difference in levels would determine whether it be retained at your company or submitted to the customer with the PPAP package.

Dave

 

[Howard Atkins]

GR&R is a requirtement of the standard
All types of measuring systems in the control plan 7.6.1, also QSA but forgotten where
The PPAP just reflects that actions done and the reports that the customer wants to see

 

[martin elliott]

Sorry to be pedantic

GR&R is a requirtement of the standard
All types of measuring systems in the control plan 7.6.1, also QSA but forgotten where
The PPAP just reflects that actions done and the reports that the customer wants to see

Sorry to be pedantic but my understanding of 7.6.1 is that MSA is required and the appropriate study may not be in all cases just a simple GR&R.

Indeed, I was told during MSA training, in some cases a simple GR&R does not provide a satisfactory statistical analysis of the control method at all and may not be approprate at all.

Martin
Getting older but not necessary wiser!

 

[D.Scott]

You are right Martin, gages identified in 7.6.1 are required to go through MSA.

Howard and I were refering to the requirement of sending the Gage R&R with the PPAP. Although statistical studies are required by 16949, the results of those studies are not required to be sent with a PPAP package.

Dave

 

[Jim Wynne]

You are right Martin, gages identified in 7.6.1 are required to go through MSA.

Howard and I were refering to the requirement of sending the Gage R&R with the PPAP. Although statistical studies are required by 16949, the results of those studies are not required to be sent with a PPAP package.
Dave

Martin is correct; GR&R is one type of MSA and may not be appropriate in all instances. With regard to PPAP, it's clear that MSA reports must be included in all Level 3 submissions, and might be required for Level 4, depending on the customer's specified requirements. In all cases, whether MSA is submitted or not, the supplier must do the studies for all measurement systems referenced on the control plan and have the reports available unless the customer has explicitly waived the requirement.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Sorry to be pedantic but my understanding of 7.6.1 is that MSA is required and the appropriate study may not be in all cases just a simple GR&R.

Indeed, I was told during MSA training, in some cases a simple GR&R does not provide a satisfactory statistical analysis of the control method at all and may not be approprate at all.

Martin
Getting older but not necessary wiser!

You are not pedantic, I have a looseness of tongue.
I was more reacting to the general feeling that the PPAP is a beast in itself were as it is just a collection of documents to submit that SHOULD have been produced.
There is a tendency to think that if it is not level 3 then you don't need to do it.

 

[dbulak]

Why do we think that

You are not pedantic, I have a looseness of tongue.
I was more reacting to the general feeling that the PPAP is a beast in itself were as it is just a collection of documents to submit that SHOULD have been produced.
There is a tendency to think that if it is not level 3 then you don't need to do it.

Howard, how right you are! I started this post and was under the assumption that level 3 and above required a GRR study! Why I was under this assumption I do not know. Someone may have told me years ago. Did they change the requirements recently?