Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questions

[James West]

I am in the beginning of bringing a small company (only 14 employees) into AS9100B compliance. I started 10 days ago and have made good progress. I am writing the 4th of 9 required procedures -Production Control. My concern is that I may be over killing this procedure in regards to the size of the company. The company has two distinctly different product catagories - NC Machine Shop, and Electronic Assembly. The two production managers have been doing everything that is related to their particular needs - QA, shipping and receiving, document and records control and production control.

Their needs are different, so my challenge is coming up with forms and procedures that will suit both disclipines. I am the QA Manager, hired just 10 days ago. Before then, they didn't even have a QA department. They have substantial contracts with both the Navy and Lockheed, so the need for some organization in their chaotic methods has become an issue of survival.

Since starting, I have taken on more responsibility, as I am now manager of document control, planning and production control. All of the non-production responsibilities that the two production managers had, are now mine.

I was laid off from a larger company on 2/22. It was there that I was trained to be an internal auditor. So, the audit issues I am familiar with are for bigger companies than I am with now.

My question is for those who have had experience with the certification process involving very small companies. Do the auditors make concessions for smaller companies, and what are those concessions.

I am aware that the whole purpose of a quality management system is to assure the highest level of customer satisfaction. I had thoughts of just focusing on those issues that would assure customer satisfaction for my company, and not nesessarily address every facet of the ISO, but I don't know how that would work for the purpose of the initial audit. Any imput would be appreciated. Thank You

 

[Randy]

Re: AS9100B Small Company Questions

As an auditor for a registrar the answer about concessions is "NOPE" the requirements are the same, it's just how you fulfill them that will be different.

Amount of Documentation = Complexity X Size of the organization and its processes

Document as necessary what you do and how you do it to the level that you can be assurred of effective control. Don't document for the auditor (Those horses fannies are never happy)

 

[Im So Openminded]

Re: AS9100B Small Company Questions

Regardless of the size of the company, internal audits should be process/product based. Audits should be conducted at planned intervals to ensure the QMS conforms to planned arraingements (see AS9100C :8.2.2 Internal Audits). Keep in mind the compentencies of the employees in documenting your processes. You do not want to over simplify the written documents (procedures and work instruction) or write them to a point of confussion (too complex to follow). Remember, a process is a function of converting inputs into outputs, wether those outputs are going into another porcess or te output is the final product, you should be able to trace the workmanship with ease from cradle to grave. If you develop the QMS with this in mind, IMO, them you will be able to conduct good process audits which will eventually lead to identifying any improvements in your QMS in the future.

I hope this helps.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: AS9100B Small Company Questions

Do the auditors make concessions for smaller companies, and what are those concessions.

Auditors should not make concessions based on the size of the registrant, if that means selective assessment of requirements. The standard does give you flexibility in terms of developing process and a system that is appropriate, not only to the size of the organization, but also to product and processes complexity, criticality, maturity, etc...

The answer is not dependent on an external auditor being more lenient. The answer is on designing a system that is adequate for the type of product at hand and adequately addresses, in a balanced manner, customer expectations and the inherent need to run a profitable operation.

 

[falconmaster]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

Hello James,

Our situations are very similar. I too was hired by a small company (6 employees total) with the task of getting them certified in order to comply with customers (military & boeing primaraly) requirments. There is no breaks for smaller companies exept for the actual size / amount of information of the manual. The length of the audit may be shorter because they do not have to cover the amount of info a bigger company might have. The audit will be just as in depth.

We, the smaller companies, have to answer to all the requirements in the standard just like the big guys. The only diiference / advantage I have seen is the auditors may be more flexable as far as sqeezing your audit in between some of their bigger audits. If your are in a hurry to get certified like we are, bieng a smaller company may in help getting in a earlier audit dates. Thats about it.

Tips;
-Templates help. Are you using a template for your manual?
-You might want to produce a quik rough draft type of manual & then do a pre-assesment audit. That will tell you exactly where you stand & save you time as far as incorperating stuff that is not needed or required.

Good luck

 

[Big Jim]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

I agree with what the others have said. I would like to add that to some extent the standard itself accommodates different size companies.

You may want to look at element 1.2 Application: "All requirements of this International Standard are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regardless of type, size and product provided."

Also look at Note 2 of element 4.2.1: "The extent of the quality management system documentation can differ from one organization to another due to a) the size of the organization and type of activities, b) the complexity of processes and their interactions, and c) the competence of personnel."

 

[achorste]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

Tips;
-Templates help. Are you using a template for your manual?

As a generality, would you consider canned manuals / templates as beneficial to the organisation? If the sole aim is purely to get "the AS / ISO badge" then fine. But to make the most of a formal QMS wouldn't it be much better to develop your own system?

 

[falconmaster]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

As a generality, would you consider canned manuals / templates as beneficial to the organisation? If the sole aim is purely to get "the AS / ISO badge" then fine. But to make the most of a formal QMS wouldn't it be much better to develop your own system?

Well a template, at least the one that I used, does let you develope your own system. In writing a AS9120 QMS manual you basically have to answer all the requirements in the AS9120 Spec. In order to answer to alll the requirement, you basically have to rewrite the spec & add how your company is going to comply with it. I saved time using a template because I did not have to rewrite the spec because it was already written. The template saves time but you still need to develope your own procedures & work instruction.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

Well a template, at least the one that I used, does let you develope your own system. In writing a AS9120 QMS manual you basically have to answer all the requirements in the AS9120 Spec. In order to answer to alll the requirement, you basically have to rewrite the spec & add how your company is going to comply with it. I saved time using a template because I did not have to rewrite the spec because it was already written. The template saves time but you still need to develope your own procedures & work instruction.

Falconmaster - welcome to the Cove!

We've been having some recent discussions about this very topic. I'd encourage you to take a look since you're suggesting doing the opposite of what a large number of experienced and qualified people suggest......

It is widely held that 'copying' the standard is of little to no value as a policy manual.......

 

[Big Jim]

Re: Do auditors make concessions for smaller companies - AS9100 Small Company Questio

That is one way to write a quality manual, but as Andy said, it is not the most usually preferred way.

Take a look a element 4.2.2 and see the requirements are for the quality manual and start from there. Remember that it should match your companies needs and be effective. It should also be in your language as much as possible, and not in "ISOese".