Do I need a Procedure for Each Process? And the Interaction of Processes - TS16949

[Marc]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

I only know the process map to identify the interact of processes (Mandatory).

Technically you can describe the interaction of processes with a text description. A Process Map is just a Flow Chart derivation that makes it 'easier' for someone to visualize.

 

[jrubio]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

Technically you can describe the interaction of processes with a text description. A Process Map is just a Flow Chart derivation that makes it 'easier' for someone to visualize.

I opened a new thread for this point

Are Process Maps Mandatory? TS 16949

 

[Johnson]

I would suggest that written procedures or process should exist at least for main processes as a clear evidence to show the system is in place. If you don't have a written procedure, it is difficulty to control that every related person is on the same boat. Especially when the process is complex and the personnel turn over rate is high. Though ISO 9001 and ISO/TS16949 require several written procedures but that's only minimum requirement.


Johnon Shao

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

Which tools?

I only know the process map to identify the interact of processes (Mandatory).

The standard does not mention that process maps are required.

You can do diagrams, flowcharts, circles connected with lines, photographs, post-it notes, spagetti diagram, Turtles. You can also describe it with narrative text, describing how the pieces work together. There are surely other methods as well.

I certainly like flowcharts and process amps, but the standard leaves it flexible to allow each organization to select the methods best suited for its processes.

PS: a lot of companies will use different methods for different processes. For example, a linear production process lends itsef well to a flowchart. But some non-linear processes look silly on a flowchart and do much better in a diagram or narrative.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

The standard does not mention that process maps are required.

You can do diagrams, flowcharts, circles connected with lines, photographs, post-it notes, spagetti diagram, Turtles. You can also describe it with narrative text, describing how the pieces work together. There are surely other methods as well.

I agree, though I have stayed away from post-it notes...

Since I've seen many cases where a process is split off into perhaps four procedures, my process maps and flow charts have included references to the governing document within the process step blocks. In a flow chart with more detail I may include the document's element number and a quick description of the task, but the element number is included mostly for my own use in auditing because that level of detail might not be desirable in most day-to-day cases.

In regulatory environments or when exacting details must be adhered to unfailingly or else, a flowchart with such an approach might be good for both the process document and at the workstation(s). I say might because it's really up to the organization to decide what mix of tools is best for them and how many procedures to write beyond the required number.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

I agree, though I have stayed away from post-it notes...

Since I've seen many cases where a process is split off into perhaps four procedures, my process maps and flow charts have included references to the governing document within the process step blocks. In a flow chart with more detail I may include the document's element number and a quick description of the task, but the element number is included mostly for my own use in auditing because that level of detail might not be desirable in most day-to-day cases.

In regulatory environments or when exacting details must be adhered to unfailingly or else, a flowchart with such an approach might be good for both the process document and at the workstation(s). I say might because it's really up to the organization to decide what mix of tools is best for them and how many procedures to write beyond the required number.

Sounds like a very nice approach.

 

[jrubio]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process?

You can prove it via process map with levels and inticator of the process. Aldo turtle Diagram and in adition if you want procedures.

The process map and indexes are mandatory, the procedure only for those required

Quoting St. Augustine

"Fallor, ergo sum" 'Si fallor, sum'

"I may be mistaken, so I am"




A bath of History.

http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/people_n2/persons3_n2/augustine1.html

 

[hutchinson]

procedures are more useful,but I think you need just 7 procedures necessarily,organisition's need is the first.

 

[IngridD - 2012]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process? And the Interaction of Processes - TS1694

hello,
I want to go more specific, who has thoughts about this:
TS 16949 paragraph 7.5.1.4 (maintenance) sais
".... as a minimum the system shall include the following:
* planned maintenance activities
* packaging and preservation of equipment and gauging
* availability of replacement parts for key manufacturing equipment
* documentation, evaluation and improving maintenance objectives ......."
QS9000 sais:
"....at a minimum, this system shall include:
* a procedure that describes planned maintenance activities
* schedules maintenance activities
* predictive maintenance methods......"
Note the difference in the first bullet for both specifications. TS does not mention a procedure!!!How should this be interpreted.

Up to know, we have the instructions (how do we do it), control charts, planning etc. We do not have the procedures (who does what when), ref other threads.
I strongly feel that with TS we can leave the procedure out, where with QS is was mandatory.

Who has ideas/experience about this???

Ingrid

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Do I need a Procedure for Each Process? And the Interaction of Processes - TS1694

hello,
I want to go more specific, who has thoughts about this:
TS 16949 paragraph 7.5.1.4 (maintenance) sais
".... as a minimum the system shall include the following:
* planned maintenance activities
* packaging and preservation of equipment and gauging
* availability of replacement parts for key manufacturing equipment
* documentation, evaluation and improving maintenance objectives ......."
QS9000 sais:
"....at a minimum, this system shall include:
* a procedure that describes planned maintenance activities
* schedules maintenance activities
* predictive maintenance methods......"
Note the difference in the first bullet for both specifications. TS does not mention a procedure!!!How should this be interpreted.

Up to know, we have the instructions (how do we do it), control charts, planning etc. We do not have the procedures (who does what when), ref other threads.
I strongly feel that with TS we can leave the procedure out, where with QS is was mandatory.

Who has ideas/experience about this???

Ingrid

Hello Ingrid,

Leuk om iemand uit Nederland te ontmoeten hier.

ISO/TS does not require a procedure for this. If you have all the required and necessary provisions in place, and you can demonstrate that the maintenance process is effective (i.e.: no unplanned downtime), than you're good to go. Remember that ISO/TS is a lot more about process performance than "paperwork." A great improvement over QS 9000.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.