Do I need to add non-product related service providers to my ASL?

Tyler

Involved In Discussions
#1
Per AS9100, we are supposed to maintain an approved list of suppliers. I have always assumed that this requirement only applied for vendors that directly impact product quality (e.g., raw materials providers, manufacturers, processors, etc.); however, I am wondering if this requirement is more broad in its reach. In particular, I need to know if the following types of vendors need to be added to the approved supplier list.
  • Registrars
  • Machine Maintenance Service Providers
  • Machine Vendors
  • Software Vendors (e.g., ERP)
 
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Thee Bouyyy

Multiple Personalities
#2
Decide who are the critical suppliers and non-critical suppliers according to your business/organization.

We have included machine maintenance service providers and machine vendors (proof machining) into non-critical category provided that they do not much impact on our product quality.

For Registrars and software vendors, we included Justification note in our Quality Manual that, why we are not considering that in our AVL. Till now it works well.
 
#3
I don't think you need to. Closer reading of 8.4.1 a-c shows that you need to control suppliers when a) they supply products and services when they are intended for use in your own products and services, b) products and services drop shipped, and c) they provide a process or part of a process.

This is a change from AS9100C where it only said you need to approve suppliers. This was generally interpreted to include any suppliers that affected your quality management system.
 

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#4
Machine Maintenance Service Providers/Organizations provide the SERVICE PROCESS of maintaining production equipment in working order. The quality of this process directly impacts on product quality and safety.
In my opinion, AS9100C was more correct in part of this section.
 
#5
You certainly can control any of the suppliers beyond what the standard requires if you see value in it. The question was what does the standard require.
 

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#6
I agree.
But exact text of standard is:

The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products, and services when:
....
c. a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization.
Standard doesn't specify the PRODUCTION process. It says about any process, including Service one.
 
#7
I agree.
But exact text of standard is:

The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products, and services when:
....
c. a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization.
Standard doesn't specify the PRODUCTION process. It says about any process, including Service one.

According to your interpretation, a & b are not needed as c covers everything.

One of the biggest failures in the whole ISO 9000 standards and its derivatives is the failure to properly define what they mean by a process.

To make this even more confusing they added in "as a decision by the organization". Does that mean that if it was mandated by the standard or a customer it need not be controlled?
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#8
One of the biggest failures in the whole ISO 9000 standards and its derivatives is the failure to properly define what they mean by a process.
Failure, and benefit.

A process is defined as an activity or set of inter-related activities which transforms inputs into outputs in ISO 9000.

ISO 9001 tells the organization to identify what these are (as per 4.4.1).

Failure to embrace the process approach usually results in to a bunch of disjointed documents that turn people off from "Quality".
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#9
ISO 9001 tells the organization to identify what these are (as per 4.4.1).
And how many Aerospace Auditors performing audits under the IAQG ICOP scheme totally disregard the BUSINESS processes that should be identified as QMS processes and end up cutting it down to a few, totally generic "processes" for the sake of having fewer PEAR forms to fill out ?

The problem is not the definition of the term process; the problem is the decades old failure to make the obvious connection between the BUSINESS PROCESSES and QMS processes, as they were separate and disconnected.....until the organization understands that the QMS HAS to be embedded in the operational processes they run, day in, day out, they haven't seen the light...
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#10
Considering the totality of 8.4 it seems clear that some suppliers can affect the quality of the products and services you provide and some don't. Determine those that do, and determine appropriate controls for them.

Others, like the people who mow your grass and the office supply store that sells you ink pens and paper, do not require these controls.

Because some auditors can make your life miserable if you don't, I suggest you note in your procedures that the suppliers in the second category are excluded from your controls.
 
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