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Do non-IATF customers need to be included in audit scope?

M

malasuerte

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#11
#11
Pau Calvo said:
My comment was a bit off-topic.

What I want to say is that if your quality system is IATF and you do not apply it for non-automotive parts that can lead to a non-conformity in a ISO 9001 audit for the non-automotive parts since you are not respecting your own quality system.
Therefore your non-automotive parts will have same system requeriments than your automotive parts.

Regarding the question of the OP if your product is applied to automotive industry and you have to go through an IATF audit you must include the customer. The auditor must target only the references related to automotive industry.
Click to expand...

This is simply untrue!!! An ISO audit cannot write a non-conformity because the company is not applying IATF requirements to non-automotive products!!! Period!

And no non-auto products would not have the same requirements!!
 
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M

malasuerte

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#12
#12
Dan M said:
Hi,
We have an automotive customer. The fluid we produce ends up on the vehicle. However, the customer does not require suppliers to be certified to IATF 16949. Are you IATF certified now? In fact, the Customer's supplier quality manual only states ISO 9001 as a supplier requirement. In audit planning, our CB asks us to list the customer and products. Do we need to include this customer in the scope of our IATF audit? Your CB for ISO 9001 Audits???? Why are you having an IATF audit?

Some background: not all of the customers and products we manufacture are automotive, so we have many customers and products that are not relevant to the IATF audit. Thanks.
Click to expand...
There needs to be some clarification here because this is wee bit confusing. But let me see if I can answer:
  • If you are IATF certified, then yes, you must include all customers(auto and non-auto). Why? >>> Because the ISO 9001 registration is part of IATF
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

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#13
#13
malasuerte said:
There needs to be some clarification here because this is wee bit confusing. But let me see if I can answer:
  • If you are IATF certified, then yes, you must include all customers(auto and non-auto). Why? >>> Because the ISO 9001 registration is part of IATF
Click to expand...
No. The automotive standard is no longer tied to ISO 9001.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

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#14
#14
Actually it is. The IATF 16949 "document" is not a stand alone standard. It only augments the requirements of ISO 9001:2015.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

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#15
#15
malasuerte said:
If you are IATF certified, then yes, you must include all customers(auto and non-auto). Why? >>> Because the ISO 9001 registration is part of IATF
Click to expand...
That is NOT correct. The scope of certification is determined by the registrant. If an organization produces both automotive and commercial products, they can seek certification ONLY for the automotive product lines and NOT be certified for the commercial products.
 
M

malasuerte

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#17
#17
Sidney Vianna said:
That is NOT correct. The scope of certification is determined by the registrant. If an organization produces both automotive and commercial products, they can seek certification ONLY for the automotive product lines and NOT be certified for the commercial products.
Click to expand...
Yes it is correct...because if you are IATF certified, then you must also be ISO 9k certified! So by default you would be listing all your customers!
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

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#18
#18
malasuerte said:
Yes it is correct...because if you are IATF certified, then you must also be ISO 9k certified! So by default you would be listing all your customers!
Click to expand...
You obviously don’t understand the process behind the determination of the scope of certification, so my advice is: don’t spread fake news here.
 
Ninja

Ninja

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#19
#19
If it helps the OP:

We had a dynamic list showing the product numbers sold to Automotive.
If we shipped the same product to non-auto as well, even under a different part number...it WAS listed on the Automotive list, just so we didn't get a spill or shortcut.

We had...well, I guess 1.25 systems...
Those things common to both systems, were done for all and we called it ISO9000.
For items on the dynamic list, there were additional requirements...and we referenced the dynamic list in a sort of boilerplate in the documents...something like "This procedure applies only to those items on the {automotive list}" or "If product is on the Automotive list..."

We used this back under QS9000, we did not try it under TS or IATF...we didn't bother getting those...though we had a "plan" to get them.
Regardless, it worked smoothly for us, and we could pull out the "Automotive List" for the auditor as an easy demarkation as to what things applied to what products.

HTH.
 
M

malasuerte

Involved In Discussions
#20
#20
Sidney Vianna said:
You obviously don’t understand the process behind the determination of the scope of certification, so my advice is: don’t spread fake news here.
Click to expand...
Really...we have been IATF CERTIFIED for 11 years now and have never had more than 2 non conformances in any of our sites!

I will trust our registrar and our results...as opposed to you!
 
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