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Do not eat the snow... - Continued

Ronen E

Problem Solver
Staff member
Super Moderator
#1
This is in continuation of the thread here

1 minute 45 seconds: "it was kind of a punch to the stomach" said the man driving a boat that probably leaks toxins into the water.

I assume the ship/boat shown at 1 minute 30 seconds is the same as the one the man is piloting. It is still sad to see, but I hate this type of semi-hypocrisy.
I get it: Let's dismiss it altogether because the world isn't perfect.
Like my daughter says: The most environment-friendly act one can do is to kill oneself. Why don't we each do it?...
Since most of us don't - does that mean that there's no point in trying to do anything else about it, or that we lose the right to say anything about it?

By the way, that was a scientist from the research team and obviously he wasn't piloting anything. He was just sitting there because the director thought it would look cool. Personally, what I thought when I watched that shot was: Where's the ice? They were supposed to be in an ice-sea.
 
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Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#2
The weirdest part I have been reading is how often this stuff is even showing up in city water supplies, bottled water and in fish being sold.

DISCLAIMER: As far as I know there haven't been any studies that show that human consumption is a problem physiologically. And, in reality, I remember eating snow as a kid back in the 1950's my parents warned not to eat snow because of all the pollution it contained.

And I just HAD to add this: Frank Zappa - Don't Eat The Yellow Snow lyrics | LyricsFreak
 
#3
I get it: Let's dismiss it altogether because the world isn't perfect.
Like my daughter says: The most environment-friendly act one can do is to kill oneself. Why don't we each do it?...
No, it is more the "do as I say, not as I do mentality" that drive me crazy. I actually agree with your daughter...if 'global climate change' is man-made, there is only one permanent solution....except the earth has had many extinction level events (I believe 5 but I could be wrong) throughout history that were not caused by humans. The earth has adapted and overcome each extinction event to bring us into today. Maybe there is no permanent solution and we just fix the things that we can and live with the consequences of the things we don't fix. I did my part, I never had children.
 

Ed Panek

VP QA RA Small Med Dev Company FDA and ISO13485:16
Trusted
#4
Another fallacy is arguing if the causes are man-made. It's interesting to know if the changes are man-made but ultimately we still have to do something to save ourselves and our biosphere.
 

Ronen E

Problem Solver
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
No, it is more the "do as I say, not as I do mentality" that drive me crazy.
To me it's more a matter of leverage: Try to identify where actions make the most difference, and focus efforts there. Like you said, we can't fix everything. So we need to prioritise. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case in this specific instance, but sometimes a little bad is necessary to achieve a greater good.

if 'global climate change' is man-made, there is only one permanent solution....
I disagree, since (at least as far as I understand) the cause is not the mere existence of humans, who have existed for a long time before climate change took off, but rather some identifiable actions. Eliminate or reduce these actions enough, and you've solved most of the problem. Well, at least up to the point of no return / positive feedback spiral.

Maybe there is no permanent solution and we just fix the things that we can and live with the consequences of the things we don't fix.
There are absolute limitations to "can", but IMO we're light years away from there. ATM "can" is quite relative (i.e. it depends on who you ask and what their preferences are), it's more a matter of "want". "Can" anyone avoid beef burgers? Of course they can, the question is whether they are willing.
 

Scanton

Wearer of many hats
#6
From my viewpoint, there is nothing “we” can do about climate change, as anything "we" do is just a token effort.

The people with the money and/or the power to make an actual difference have no intention or need to do anything about climate change. So what will happen is that temperatures will continue to rise, and gradually 80% to 95% of the population will get wiped from the face of the planet.

With only 5% to 10% of the population remaining (guess which 5% to 10%), the earth will recover using its natural ability to heal itself, and the cycle will start all over again. If you want to save something, save us, as the planet can take care of itself and doesn’t give a monkeys whether we exist or not.

If it does happen too quickly and we do become extinct, the planet will probably just say “well that’s them gone, what shall we do next?” “Yeah, let’s do the dinosaurs again, they were fun and didn’t leave so much mess when they left”.
 

Scanton

Wearer of many hats
#9
Ronen E, I believe you are using reductio ad absurdum to ridicule my opinion as an ignorant view, and if you were correct I would agree with you.

Are you really suggesting that we all make every effort to make changes in our lives to affect a reduction in climate change, and irrevocably change only our lives for the worse in a futile effort to prevent the inevitable, while countries like the USA (biggest resource and energy users per head on the planet) pull out of the climate change agreement, and go back to using "Clean Coal"? (Trumps words, not mine).
What would be the point?

Those that have and make all the money, have all the power and make all the decisions, and you will not see anything change until they find a way to make money from it. We have seen a few examples peddled as green but they are nothing of the kind.

Take the Prius which is much more resource heavy and polluting to build, much more resource heavy and polluting to recycle and doesn’t do anywhere near the MPG of my current diesel car. It is still peddled as a green solution but in reality just makes lots of money for the same group of people while polluting the planet in 10 new and different ways.

We are now all told then we must all go electric even though the power industry doesn’t have the infrastructure to support it, a large proportion of power stations globally are still using coal, battery technology is massively polluting, and pushes the energy problem back to the power stations isn’t going to solve anything.

I’m clearly not saying that we cannot or should not make changes in our own lives, for instance my entire house is lit by led (yes every light even in the garage), my home in double insulated, triple glazed with cavity wall insulation and all my appliances are A++ rated or above. I have been using the same shopping bags for years, walk to the shops when I can and buy as little plastic as possible, however my personal belief is that this is all a futile effort and will have no impact at all.

I do what I can, but my efforts amount to a fart in a hurricane, and all I see is the winds being made stronger by people who could make a difference but don’t actually give a shit about the overwhelming majority of us, and will be happy when the inconvenience of our existence is resolved by the planet heating up.
 
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Ronen E

Problem Solver
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Ronen E, I believe you are using reductio ad absurdum to ridicule my opinion as an ignorant view
I'm playing Devil's advocate to make a point. Nothing personal here.
Are you really suggesting that we all make every effort to make changes in our lives to affect a reduction in climate change
Yes. Even if we fail, at least we'll know we did our best instead of standing by.
and irrevocably change only our lives for the worse in a futile effort to prevent the inevitable
My emphasis - these are all assumptions that aren't necessarily true.
Those that have and make all the money, have all the power and make all the decisions, and you will not see anything change until they find a way to make money from it.
I actually partly agree. The main problem is not even climate change, but the current prevailing social, economical and political order - as long as uncontrolled capitalism rules it is indeed going to be very difficult to solve any major problem. There are multiple fronts on which we can choose to be active, and they are not mutually exclusive. Each one will decide for themselves what they're willing to fight for (or nothing at all).
I’m clearly not saying that we cannot or should not make changes in our own lives, for instance my entire house is lit by led (yes every light even in the garage), my home in double insulated, triple glazed with cavity wall insulation and all my appliances are A++ rated or above. I have been using the same shopping bags for years, walk to the shops when I can and buy as little plastic as possible, however my personal belief is that this is all a futile effort and will have no impact at all.
In a way you are correct. Maybe watch the documentary Cowspiracy then come back and we'll take it from there.
 
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