Do OFI's (Opportunities for Improvement) really help?

I think that OFI's are useful (1) and I want to continue to receive them (2)

  • 1 - Very useful

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • 1 - Occassionally useful

    Votes: 20 57.1%
  • 1 - A waste of time

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - I want to continue to receive them

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • 2 - I do not care

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - Please stop

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .
J

JaneB

#51
That is what I was thinking. Our system doesn't have anything about OFI's.
I think it's rather persnickety of him (that's a technical term where I come from :D to take this line. As already advised, you don't have to do anything with 'em unless you've made the mistake of tying yourself down via your own system.

Sounds like he can't find much to 'go after', which is a good thing! (I do wonder why, at times, some auditors seem unable to actually just accept that fact?

An OFI for me is just that - think about it, Perhaps it's worthy of action - and perhaps it ain't. Sometimes I've seen auditors raise OFIs which were polite kind of 'early warnings' and unless actioned, likely to lead to NC down the track. Other times, I've seen OFIs suggested which were plain dopey, or reflected the auditor's own bias. One can always have a management meeting and simply record that all were considered, but deemed not worth doing (for whatever reason).
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#52
Situations like this are indicative, IMHO, of the results of teaching internal auditors to behave (in part) like external auditors. I wonder how these 'OFI's' were introduced as being worthy of 'thinking about' (as Jane rightly says).

If the subject of the OFI was truely an opportunity for improvement, wouldn't it be taken seriously enough to have been investigated and some formal response to it defined??

If these audits aren't done in a collaborative manner, and OFI's are thrown over the fence to the auditee, plus if no-one sees the value in their content, who would spend any time on them? It's just busy work!

Is the person managing the internal audit looking at the OFI's to see if they're worthy of action? Is this just the auditor flexing their authority? Should the subject of the OFI really be an NC? Sounds like a lack of effective audit program management to me.......
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#53
Situations like this are indicative, IMHO, of the results of teaching internal auditors to behave (in part) like external auditors. I wonder how these 'OFI's' were introduced as being worthy of 'thinking about' (as Jane rightly says).

If the subject of the OFI was truely an opportunity for improvement, wouldn't it be taken seriously enough to have been investigated and some formal response to it defined??

If these audits aren't done in a collaborative manner, and OFI's are thrown over the fence to the auditee, plus if no-one sees the value in their content, who would spend any time on them? It's just busy work!

Is the person managing the internal audit looking at the OFI's to see if they're worthy of action? Is this just the auditor flexing their authority? Should the subject of the OFI really be an NC? Sounds like a lack of effective audit program management to me.......
One of my colleagues, Akio Miura, a respected Quality guru in Japan, has a rant against "kaizen" as it is [misused and abused] in Japan - folks throw out "suggestions" for improvements with no regard for history (Have they been tried and found lacking?) or practicality (Is there an economic benefit in the offing?) The situation being the employees are under pressure to "do something," even if the something is worthless.

I suspect some, not all, internal auditors feel pressure to offer OFI without really being aware of the intricacies of the process involved.

The Quality Manager has a responsibility to turn "hip shooting OFI" into teaching moments to help the internal auditors understand what may be valid OFI and what may simply be "blather" with no value. Under no circumstances should any OFI be ignored. The person offering an OFI, regardless of its value, deserves a response regarding action taken or not taken on the suggestion.
 
J

JaneB

#54
Yes, you make some really good points Wes. Sometimes they are just 'thrown out there', without any consideration of either previous history

(Have they been tried and found lacking?) or practicality (Is there an economic benefit in the offing?)
Or, at times, of future plans, such as a future plan or strategy which would supersede the current OFI.

At times I've provided 'OFIs' as part of an internal audit. I write them carefully and am never either upset or annoyed if they're not actioned or discarded. I see them as purely being offered and I never believe that as an auditor (internal/external) I have any right to tell someone else how to manage their own area or business. But if I see an opportunity I may well include it in the audit report as a value add. Mostly, my clients ask me to, or are very appreciative of them. Why write it? Because then there's a record of it. It's up to the management what to do about it, which can well include deciding not to act on it.

But good point about not ignoring them, Wes. Re. OFIs on audit reports, I advise clients to make a note on what's being done about each item (anything from a handwritten note on the audit report to a formal note in a review meeting, depending on how their system works).

I suggest it can occur with both internal and external auditors, however, and isn't restricted to internal.


The Quality Manager has a responsibility to turn "hip shooting OFI" into teaching moments to help the internal auditors understand what may be valid OFI and what may simply be "blather" with no value. Under no circumstances should any OFI be ignored. The person offering an OFI, regardless of its value, deserves a response regarding action taken or not taken on the suggestion.
 
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P

potdar

#55
Yes Jane,

Just as the OFIs are normally discussed and then put on record and are normally appreciated by the auditee - a formal /informal record as per the system of a 'considered decision' made regarding them, would be appreciated by the auditors as well. Though not mandatory, that would be one indication of the QMS being alive and kicking.

If actions are taken on the OFIs, some records are likely to appear somewhere - either in the continuoal improvement records, the document change records, the performance records ..... If no records are seen, and we still claim an action and an improvement - where's the improvement?
 
S

sathishthantri

#56
I believe OFIs are value adding.
- Sometimes the auditors record their findings very smartly as OFIs when there could be a clear case of non-conformancies. One has to consider such OFIs as non-conformities and act on them.
- As mentioned by some friends, there are many instances wherein the auditors show their "value addition" by mentioning OFIs. But whether each OFI is implementable or not is a question which is dependent on the organisation. Such OFIs have to be analysed to check whether implementation of such findings will help / enhance the system.
I am sure if all OFIs are taken as sacrosanct and acted upon, depending on how many different auditors visit the organisation there could be trouble as there can be clear contridictory OFIs over a period of time.
Regards
 
B

Bob Bonville

#57
Howard, when I documented most of my OFI's they dealt with practices (not typically covered by procedure) that were successfully employed in other departments of my company or suppliers I visited in my audit travels.
 
R

raju8177

#58
Dear Friends,

Thanks for the view. Getting good learning from you. As I m new member but upgrading my knowledge much through the COVE & from you friends
 
T

Taliesyn

#59
Our TS Auditor has just been and we had no NCs but 3 OFIs. I can see the argument that OFIs are consulting "dressed up" to look like the Auditors is only auditing but I can also see the value of them.
I've looked at the OFIs he's raised and they are all genuine improvements that would help us - i.e. me - keep a better grip on certain elements of the QMS.
I haev, however, read a report recently that was criticising RAs for not issuing NCs for everything they see - but I hope that doesn't happen. We've all got enough paperwork to deal with and OFIs are a good way to highlight "best practise".
Also, our TS Auditor reviews EVERY OFI in the first part of EVERY audit - so he may as well right me up NCs instead, I guess!
 
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