Do OFI's (Opportunities for Improvement) really help?

I think that OFI's are useful (1) and I want to continue to receive them (2)

  • 1 - Very useful

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • 1 - Occassionally useful

    Votes: 20 57.1%
  • 1 - A waste of time

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - I want to continue to receive them

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • 2 - I do not care

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - Please stop

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#71
Ego aside, another take on OFI is that they may have found a train of thought they picked up on but during the audit, they didn't have the time or the evidence to definatively nail you on it. (One piece of non-conformance was not enough to be a systematic pattern)

During our external audits, we have a corporate audit escort who fight tooth and nail to push back on such things. I've been privy to some potential audit findings but got negotiated off. There was a lot of behind the scenes haggling especially on findings that will be political. If the case is weak and doesn't stand up to our counter arguments, often the auditor gives up the fight but fires a shot across the brows with an OFI instead of a finding.

We've had the same lead auditor for a number of years and the more he audits, the more he learns about our business. This means he can dig down and also remember what one site said when saying "site X is responsible for that".

On the other hand, I'd argue a continual auditor may be susceptable to 'stockholm syndrom' where they can become too familiar and sympethetic with his audience.
Very easy to become "sympathetic", but, that said, a good auditor can be sympathetic, but still recognize what's in the best interest of the client - much like a mom warning her kid from crossing busy streets.
 
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J

JaneB

#72
...I expect that VERY FEW OFI's will be written going forward.

WHAT A SHAME! Sure, there have been poorly written OFIs, but there have been MANY well written and appropriate OFIs as well, and they have been very useful to robust companies trying to improve their performance.

The whole D**n ISO/TS program is supposed to promote continual improvement, and they cut off one of the arguably most effective ways to promote performance once basic compliance has been achieved. Companies pay $1000's to have CB surveillance audits performed. They have a right to receive value for their investment, beyond a nice pat acknowledgement that they continue to be compliant.
Oh shame indeed. Darn it!

I've noticed over a period of time with some good auditors that, far from 'getting it wrong' with OFIs they actually got it very right. And in a couple of cases when the recipients simply ignored the OFIs (no, they shouldn't have, but that's a whole another story) that ultimately the issue/s the auditors had picked up on actually deteriorated.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#73
The rules allow you to think out loud.
To actually write the OFI's give them a sort of sanctity that they do not deserve and then become part of the history.
The feeling is that if "I don't do the OFI's" next time I will get a NC.
 
D

Desara01

#74
Ok well Saturday night steak and glass of cabernet under the belt, let Penny add her :2cents: love that. Two Pennys - and I am a Gemini!

I've found that most of the "OFIs" from 3rd party audits fall into two categories:
  1. Auditor has personal preferences "this is what I like to see..." my response to that is, great, when you start working full time for our company then you can make it look like what you want, or
  2. It's really a NC and the auditor is doing a nod/nudge/wink;) when the darned system is noncompliant. In other words, letting them off with a warning. That's just not helpful. If it's a NC, write the darned thing. The poor Quality Manager has probably been struggling with the problem, has been sounding the alarm that it's broken, and needs the NC written to get mgt to pay attention- the QM loses credibility with his/her leadership when 3rd party auditors won't call em like they really are!
There are of course exceptions - I know a couple of auditors (cough - Andyn - cough) that actually do have good ideas on how to improve the processes, but will also actually write the NCs when they need to be written - but also are smart enough to recognize that every company is different and how the auditor "likes to see it" is quite frankly irrelevant!

I have trained oodles of Mgt Reps and I always encourage them to play appropriate "catch ball" with their registrars and insist on value from the audits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against 3rd party audits, I just want VALUE for the money!! If, at the end of the audit, I ask the question, how did this make my company better, and I have nothing, I question the value of the money I am spending. :bigwave: Cheers!
 
D

DRDDO

#75
Dear All
Right now the Earth axis is change from 23.5 degree to 49.5 degree, so it affect to the climate changed,
I change my mind,
Auditors raised what they may be OFi, OBs, comment etc., and they write down in next visit audit, Follow up OFi, OBs.
In this case, if I do nothing, it too risk to get NC from next visit, so I put all OFi, OBs in the Preventive activity.
Now, In my opinion, NC, OBs, OFi that raised by Auditor are same things that I must action although only NC is official action that I must reply to Auditor in the specific time
:agree:
DRDDO
 
O

orangeisenergy

#77
I am new to the industry as a Quality Manager, and I appreciate OFI's or observations. I understand that auditors are not supposed to consult, but OFI's give the auditor a way to suggest changes without "consulting" (although it is often the same thing). For me, being new to the industry, I absolutely welcome all input and suggestions. I may take and leave what I want, but just having the information exchange is beneficial to me. Hey, that's why I spend hours on hear reading what everyone has to say! I will take all the help/guidance/information exchange I can get! ;)

:magic:
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#79
Good question Phil:

When would an internal auditor issue an OFI?
As an internal auditor I like to issue OFI when I observe a weakness in the procedural practice that could have a negative impact to the achievement of the objectives. This OFI's are well understood more in HSSE audit than in Quality. Thank you.
 
Q

QAMTY

#80
Well is not neccesary to be a nc in order to be an ofi.
What I do it is I declare an ofi when is something that can ve improved but actually it complies the requirements
It is a process like a rnc but this is ofir,that is report of an ofi, every month we check the reports and make improvement projects.
An example:we have defined a production rate,and we comply with such reqirement,but we see that if we change the equipment we can increase the rate, then in this case raise an ofir.
This practice really has been very helpful for us.
Hope this helps
 
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