Do OFI's (Opportunities for Improvement) really help?

I think that OFI's are useful (1) and I want to continue to receive them (2)

  • 1 - Very useful

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • 1 - Occassionally useful

    Votes: 20 57.1%
  • 1 - A waste of time

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - I want to continue to receive them

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • 2 - I do not care

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 2 - Please stop

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .
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rogerpenna

Involved In Discussions
#82
OFIs are not an obligation.

the organization must review the OFI and implement it IF it makes sense to the organization. There may be good ideas, and bad ones.

some auditors really know the industry they are auditing, so there may be merit in the OFI.


sometimes the OFI may have merit EVEN if the auditor doesn´t know the industry.

because a neutral, non-biased look or opinion may sometimes have MORE merit than an analysis done in a biased way, viciated in processes done that way since "forever".
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#83
Better not to have any organization rely on its auditors to come up with improvement ideas.

That would be a system weakness worthy of a nonconformity report and some proper corrective action to stop recurrence.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#84
This thread/poll from 2007 popped up because someone voted in the poll. The original question was about CB auditors and OFIs, not internal auditors. Nonetheless,

Better not to have any organization rely on its auditors to come up with improvement ideas.
If internal auditors make suggestions for improvement it doesn't mean that the organization relies on them as the only source of ideas for improvement. Internal auditors should be encouraged to report what they see, and in some instances what they don't see, if they think that something is missing that should perhaps be implemented. It's up to management after that.
 

pkost

Trusted Information Resource
#85
Our notified body issues OFIs and requires we address them with a justification for applying them or not, if we ignore them they tend to raise them to a non conformance for not taking steps to improv...It's somewhat irritating
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#87
Examine the source of your CARs and you’ll probably notice that most come from auditors.

This indicates a lack of leadership encouraging employees to report nonconformities.

Likewise for suggested improvements of OFIs.
 

rogerpenna

Involved In Discussions
#88
Sorry, what does CAR means (english is not my first language). Conformity A?? Report...?

I agree that if most NCRs (Non Conformity Reports) and OFIs come from auditors, that is a problem.

But I see absolutely no problem having a FEW OFIs coming from offside the organization. Imho, it is HEALTHY, not a non conformity.

It's human nature to have biases, to have traditional ways to do things and to not think "outside the box".

You can´t fight human nature with NCRs and training.

Many times, only those outside the box can think outside the box.

An organization may be creating OFIs but they just aren´t effective or groundbreaking because it's inside the box thinking. So whats the problem if someone from OUTSIDE gives an OFI?

What you can do is TRAIN your people and have good analysis people to check that OFI and see if it's valid for the organization, trying to bias as much away as possible... the same bias that made them not have the idea for such OFI in the first place.


Isn´t one of the purposes of ISO exactly to show how organizations have so many stakeholders? That they are not isolated?

Organizations must listen to stakeholders, including stakeholders from outside the organization. The client being "THE" stakeholder.

And indeed, many OFIs come from outside the organization. If employees should be capable of finding all OFIs possible by themselves, why listen to client feedback?

And if we can listen to client or other stakeholders feedback or suggestions, why not listen, then analyze, review and accept or reject, an Auditor's OFI?
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#89
Corrective Action Request.

My concern is that organization’s tend to rely too much on their auditors for system improvement actions.

Count them and see for yourself.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#90
Sorry, what does CAR means (english is not my first language). Conformity A?? Report...?
Corrective Action Requests.

There is no question that OFI's CAN (such as may and might) be HELPFUL to any organization, irrespective of who triggers them. But, and obviously, the most interested and active people driving improvement should be internal to the organization.
 
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