Do Procedures Require Application, Scope, etc.?

J

Jim Biz

#11
My expierience tells me that "numbering systems" are only important to the ISO rep - the companies consultant (if one is used) and the external auditor.

When discussing corrective actions - or system documents contents with the majority of people that are responsible for them it seems to be much clearer to describe the procedure using the named title.

For example if were talking "Contract Review" and describe it as element 4.3 or section 7.2.2 makes little difference to the "end user of the document" - but in both cases if we describe it as the Contract review procedure - the user tends to gain a clearer understanding of the issue and needed actions involved.
 
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M

M Greenaway

#12
Numbering systems can be useful to the company itself if it wants to be sure that it has cover all the requirements of the standard - this can be done in other ways though.
 
H

HFowler

#13
Tomjess,

For the last several years I have eliminated such titles as Purpose and Scope, etc. I have also eliminated numbering. I have taken a much simpler approach to writing procedures and have gotten nothing but positive comments from auditors. I try to keep procedures to a couple of pages each.

I have a header on each page that shows:
The Company Logo
Procedure Name and Number
Written by and Approved by
Revision No.
Date

I begin the procedure with a General Description which specifies the purpose and scope, etc. It is usually just a few sentences.

This is just my method. Please read on for good advise from others.

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler
 
B

Bruce Wade

#14
I find it useful to continue to use such headings as: "Purpose", "Scope" and "responsibilities and authorities", et al.

When investigating why something did or did not occur within the management system, having such "boundaries" can be helpful in root cause analysis. They can help define when nonconforming conditions occurred because the process was "out of scope" or "no one had appropriate responsibility or authority to control the process", etc.

Numbering documents helps in cross reference to the standards.

Numbering within documents, i.e. "outlining" helps in identification of changes in revisions.

Our internal forms require, per procedure, that we list document number, revision level and title to ensure adequate communication on internal audits, document review forms, corrective action requests, etc. On IAs and CARs, we also "cut and paste" from the system document or standard when describing the nonconforming condition, so the information is clearly communicated and readily available to the auditee or respondent.
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
thats ok for you to say

Titles are just that.........does everyone who writes a procedure understand what you meant by them? In my experience...most times not.
To some people purpose and scope are the same and very confusing. Not everyone fills in the blanks well...and many of us fail to recognize that. It took me a long time, many years ago...to understand what a difficult time some very educated people have writing a procedure. To me its second nature, and probably to many of you as well........but it is a nack/talent that many do not possess. Reading a procedure isn't always that easy either....certainly not as easy as the writer thought it would be.

" i know you understand what you thought i said, but what i said really wasn't what i meant" or something like that...i forget how it really went....:bonk: :bonk: :bonk:
 
L

Laura - 2003

#16
Yes..I'm back!

I always put a front page on proceudres which states:

Objective (what the QP will achieve)
Records (Qualiyty records)
Related documents ( Other QPs, instructions, etc.)
Amendments since last isse: (Specifics)

This helps when it comes to audit. The assessor can find out what records are evidence of compliance, what the procedure sets out to achieve, where he can find further information etc.

The user can also use the information for the samereason.

Lau.
 
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