Do Quality Objectives have to be Measurable?

[rama cylinders]

Re: Quality Objectives - Do Quality Objectives have to be Measurable?

yes offcouse objective is a target and target can't be reached without measuring. Mainly measuring is mandatory becuse as per iso 9001:2008 you need to track your objective and have to make action plans if you dont found your objective status is going inline with your target objective. As I am an auditor for iso 9001 so I can assure you that it is mandatory to have measurable targets.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Quality Objectives - Do Quality Objectives have to be Measurable?

yes offcouse objective is a target and target can't be reached without measuring.

Welcome to The Cove, Rama. Over the years, we've had many a discussion on this topic and most agreed that there is a difference between objectives and targets. For example, an organization could have a quality objective of improving on-time delivery, and track it's performance. Additionaly (and not mandated by the ISO 9001 standard), the organization could have a OTD target of, e.g., 90% or better, at the end of fiscal year 2013....quality objectives could even be attribute-type, such as, for example, achieve silver level supplier with customer. So, many of us differentiate the terms objectives and targets and, while ISO 9001 mandates objectives, it does not require targets.

As I am an auditor for iso 9001 so I can assure you that it is mandatory to have measurable targets.

There are many certified auditors in this forum and we normally tend to give the source of the requirement. In this case ISO 9001:2008 paragraph 5.4.1 clearly states

The quality objectives shall be measurable and consistent with the quality policy.

 

[SGquality]

Re: Quality Objectives - Do Quality Objectives have to be Measurable?

In this case ISO 9001:2008 paragraph 5.4.1 clearly states

The quality objectives shall be measurable and consistent with the quality policy.

Thus, if the objectives are like attributes, how to measure ? In that context, would it be right to say that all targets (derived from objectives) need to be measurable ?

 

[Ninja]

Re: Quality Objectives - Do Quality Objectives have to be Measurable?

Thus, if the objectives are like attributes, how to measure ? In that context, would it be right to say that all targets (derived from objectives) need to be measurable ?

I think maybe the question is rhetorical?

If the target isn't measureable, how will you know if you hit it?

What would be the sense of aiming for a target in the dark with your eyes closed?

"Before beginning a Hunt, it is wise to ask someone what you are looking for before you begin looking for it."
Winnie the Pooh - compliments to AA Milne

 

[bruceliu222]

Yes, those measurable quality objectives should be reviewed during the management review meeting on regular basis.

 

[Mikael]

NO - objectives shall NOT be measurable, they shall be actionable.

Your q is problematic, by asking like that, the q assumes that there exist unmeasurable objectives...

What is Quality, you must start there. Quality is not only iso, there is litterature on this.

Quality is not quantitative, unless you decide to define it like that, but then we have to many words, and too small a world.

 

[Ninja]

NO - objectives shall NOT be measurable, they shall be actionable.

Your q is problematic, by asking like that, the q assumes that there exist unmeasurable objectives...

What is Quality, you must start there. Quality is not only iso, there is litterature on this.

Quality is not quantitative, unless you decide to define it like that, but then we have to many words, and too small a world.

What? ... I mean to say ... What ?!? :mg:

"NO - objectives shall NOT be measurable, they shall be actionable."
...so we should plan actions, but not measure if the actions achieved anything... what would be the point of that? Feeling good to be active?

"Quality is not quantitative, unless you decide to define it like that,"
Of course I would decide to define it like that...I'm in business to make money. (and plan to measure that too)
Non-quantitative quality is better known as {a warm fuzzy feeling}.
Nothing wrong with a warm fuzzy feeling, mind you, you can have all of them that you want and I'll buy from and sell to someone else who measures quality.

Please, oh please tell me that either (A) you are being sarcastic or (B) that your intent simply did not make it clearly into your post.

 

[Big Jim]

NO - objectives shall NOT be measurable, they shall be actionable.

Your q is problematic, by asking like that, the q assumes that there exist unmeasurable objectives...

What is Quality, you must start there. Quality is not only iso, there is litterature on this.

Quality is not quantitative, unless you decide to define it like that, but then we have to many words, and too small a world.

Please take another look at the standard. As Sidney already pointed out, element 5.4.1 clearly states that quality objectives shall be measurable.

That requirement is too clear to ignore or misintrepret.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Please take another look at the standard. As Sidney already pointed out, element 5.4.1 clearly states that quality objectives shall be measurable.

That requirement is too clear to ignore or misintrepret.

The requirement is clear, but the implementation of it often isn't. Many companies have objectives that can't reasonably be measured but they try to do it anyway. Customer satisfaction is a good example.

 

[Mikael]

Please take another look at the standard. As Sidney already pointed out, element 5.4.1 clearly states that quality objectives shall be measurable.

That requirement is too clear to ignore or misintrepret.

Big Jim: I tried to make the point that there is also a world outside of ISO. It occur to me that engineering people have a really hard time to accept other worlds.

I am educated from a business school with a bachelor in economics and philosophy, and a master degree in SCM and quality. I dont know much about ISO, but I have other forces (not house cleaning, lol).
I am not making things up here, just to be irritating, I am trying to help, to give people something to think about.