Do we have to prove a link between the mill and our raw material supplier?

QE1993

Involved In Discussions
#1
We order our raw material from our distributor. The distributor sends us mill certs from the mill that supplied them the raw material. The mill cert states that the mill has sold the raw material to the distributor.

The distributor sends us a packing slip (along with the mill certs). So far, we have been throwing the packing slip away, so there is no documented link between us and the distributor.

I've always found this questionable because we have no documented evidence of the chain of events and now customers are starting to ask us about it too.

How can I explain to coworkers that this link is important?
 
Last edited:
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#2
We order our raw material from our distributor. ........ there is no documented link between us and the distributor.
Your internal purchase request, signed.
Your purchase order.
Their invoice.
Your check or wire transfer.

Are these not documented links?

What specifically are you looking for, and to accomplish what?
 

QE1993

Involved In Discussions
#3
They send us a packing slip, which we throw away. I'm trying to convince management that we should be keeping the packing slip.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#4
They send us a packing slip, which we throw away. I'm trying to convince management that we should be keeping the packing slip.
The question would be why keep the packing slip? It's not the most important document but:

The packing slip is evidence of what they sent you -- description and lbs. You certainly need to verify what you ordered/received with the packing slip to verify any discrepancy.

Also, how do you know what you are being invoiced for is what you received. We are old school and match up our PO, the packing slip, and invoice on each order. That good, albeit old fashioned, accounting 101.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#5
Keeping a packing slip is a piece of paper in a file drawer...useless.

What VALUE do you perceive the packing list to have?

If it has value, show the value it has.
If you can't...what are you trying to accomplish by convincing people to keep it?

Thus my question above: What specifically are you looking for, and to accomplish what?

Trying to keep a piece of paper with writing on it doesn't help you make the case...what if the packing slip states 1000pcs, and only 500pcs showed up?

What is the PURPOSE of keeping it?
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Keeping a packing slip is a piece of paper in a file drawer...useless.

What VALUE do you perceive the packing list to have?

If it has value, show the value it has.
If you can't...what are you trying to accomplish by convincing people to keep it?

Thus my question above: What specifically are you looking for, and to accomplish what?

Trying to keep a piece of paper with writing on it doesn't help you make the case...what if the packing slip states 1000pcs, and only 500pcs showed up?

What is the PURPOSE of keeping it?
It acts as a record of receipt. We won't pay with a packing slip as evidence of receipt. Could probably work around with today's electronic systems, but we're old.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
One of my unofficial duties now is receiving, so I scan everything that comes in with the order, millcerts, packing slips, BOL's, everything, and I deposit the scans into the job file by job number. I cannot tell you how many times this has been valuable when people come asking about things. Of course I have the PO as well, but that is usually already in the job file.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
I would definitely show a link between the mill and distributor... if there is a problem with mixed material you need to know where the material came from and where the mix may have happened - was it at the mill or the distributor's warehouse? So yes - Id' say you need that link, somehow - whether it's a packing list or a separate cert.

In my last job, in the chemical world with pharma customers, we often had to show every single step in the supply chain, even if it went through multiple distributors, or through multiple sites under one distributor.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Maybe I'm missing something...
We order our raw material from our distributor.
So you have your PO, and possibly an order acknowledgement linking together you and the distributor...the physical supply chain.

The distributor sends us mill certs from the mill that supplied them the raw material. The mill cert states that the mill has sold the raw material to the distributor.
So you have the cert, which shows the mill making and testing the material, and the sale (or at least shipping) of that material to the distributor you bought from.

No problem at all if you choose to keep the packing slip, or your own receiving paperwork, or whatever to show that the goods you're about to pay for actually arrived...as long as amount ordered, amount billed and amount arriving and amount paid for all match, there is a lot of freedom in which documents you keep.

Golfman's system chooses to use the Packing list...no problem.
Another system may choose to use the receiver's count...no problem.
Thus my question for a company that has been historically not keeping the packing list...

What is the value of keeping it now? Are you already achieving that value historically?
If not, and there's a break in tracking, certainly keep the Packing list now.
If you already have an unbroken chain, why bother starting to keep the packing list?
The packing list has no objective value on its own.

:2cents:
 

stevegyro

Involved In Discussions
#10
Maybe I'm missing something...





So you have your PO, and possibly an order acknowledgement linking together you and the distributor...the physical supply chain.







So you have the cert, which shows the mill making and testing the material, and the sale (or at least shipping) of that material to the distributor you bought from.



No problem at all if you choose to keep the packing slip, or your own receiving paperwork, or whatever to show that the goods you're about to pay for actually arrived...as long as amount ordered, amount billed and amount arriving and amount paid for all match, there is a lot of freedom in which documents you keep.



Golfman's system chooses to use the Packing list...no problem.

Another system may choose to use the receiver's count...no problem.

Thus my question for a company that has been historically not keeping the packing list...



What is the value of keeping it now? Are you already achieving that value historically?

If not, and there's a break in tracking, certainly keep the Packing list now.

If you already have an unbroken chain, why bother starting to keep the packing list?

The packing list has no objective value on its own.



:2cents:


Agree with GolfMan ...

I’m assuming AS9100. What about the ‘HEAT LOT’ (for raw metals)? Traceability is absolutely needed for critical to function components. If ‘heat’ is not on packing slip now, should not be a big deal to request this from the distributor.

As far as ‘.. not starting additional requirements now ...’, personally I would advise to not do so. Honesty is best policy. Document the added requirement as a new discovery. Just my two-cents. Best regards.



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